I'm planning on doing so as soon as I can...still don't have access yet, though.
After that, I'll work on adding in date/time, IP address of poster, etc....
Kieran
Guess not... RichardS you tricked me! ;^)
Kieran
Hey do we have a time stamp now???
RichardS: at 12:34pm est
AVB: What "some" of us suspected all along about THX. Not much. IMHO
Kieran
AVB: thanks for your input too... very informative.
Kieran
JT: thanks that makes sense. How much do you think it would cost to ship that dish out to So.Cal?
Kieran
Curtis/Pyrite-- I have a friend who drives an International Scout. He says the key to owning such a truck is patience, because no body makes parts for them any more. So, when you need a part, you have to just search for it... junk yards, and the like. He recently moved to AZ, so I don't know if he still owns the Scout or not, but I always thought it was a pretty cool truck, albeit a total beater.
Kieran
RichardS... actually, I think I mis-spelled it, it should be spelled like the vegitable, carrot, not the Impirical weight mesure, carot. But I guess it doesn't really matter. Because what they are really for is what you called them, greater-than and less-than mathematical symbols.
AVB
Some interesting info I came across. Since nobody really knows what the specs for THX are in total besides 100 wpc for THX in amps. I found a Crown professional amp, the 800 CSl that is THX rated and has .1% THD at full power. This is alot higher then I would have thought for a THX amp. It seems that some of their requirements aren't as stringent as I would have thought. Just what are you getting when you have that sticker on your amp?
RichardS.
So that's what the're called, Carats...Geez ;-)
Ron H
Kieran: Thanks
Guy
Kieran
Wild Bill: Thank you for that lecture on economics... I'm fully aware of the supply and demand model. :-) Actually, I have yet to buy ANY of my electronics over the internet. So far I have supported local vendors for that, saving dvd purchases only, for internet buying. I wouldn't have asked the question if there were some obvious benefits to buying the $249 model over the $99 model. If you read my post, and go and look at the link to wich I referred, I think it's pretty clear that I said that the ONLY difference that I can see is that the dish that comes with the $249 model has a dual lnb. The receivers APPEAR TO BE THE SAME. So, I say again: doesn't $150 extra seem like a LOT to pay, just for dual LNB support? Especially when the $99 version can be upgraded to dual LNB with an acessory that costs less than $50.00? Unless I'm missing something here... this seems like a bit of a rip-off.
Axis
All: as one who owns a piece of Curtis's HT Journey (Def Tech BP2000 array), I can only say that if you are thinking of a new TV or Sub...talk to him first. he will tell you straight, and get you a good deal on some MAJOR TLC gear. the speaks and even the RC2000 remote that he got me are in perfect working order still, and even the Mute button on the remote (which Curtis went to a dealer to get programmed for me cuz my PRO-99 remote did not have one for TV) still is in memory and is used ALL THE TIME. Anyway...help him out if he needs it...actually I've caught myself thinking of 16x9 iScan images a bit..
Kieran
Ron H--- "br" except surround the br with carats...
RichardS. at 11:33am EST
RonH: less than arrow br greater than arrow for single break
Ron H
Can someone remind me how to do a line break?
Ron H
Here is a link on the Rex Reed deal. If you believe his story I have some swamp land to sell you. http://www.observer.com/pages/frontpage1.htm
Curtis
PyriteEars: My dad was involved in the huge combine machines rather than the truck business at IH. I stumbled upon a small shop the other day that does nothing but Scout (Jeep clone) work. The owner had several samples with >500K miles on them. "They're the Checkers of trucks", he told me.
JT
Kieran: I also have an extra single LNB dish(without receiver) you can have for free if you're willing to pay shipping.
PyriteEars
Curtis: A good friend of mine still drives an old yellow international harvester jeep/bronco like thing. It'll probably run forever, perhaps a testament to your fathers work??? I had the pleasure of driving this beast once to haul something. You could feel the frame flex as it worked the highway, but it came through with flying colors.
JT
Kieran: If you are only wanting to use two receivers, you won't need a multi-switch. You will only need a splitter and four diplexers. Use the splitter to divide your OTA signal into two cables. Connect one coax line from your Dual LNB and one of the OTA cables to each of two diplexers. This will terminate in one coax cable coming out of each diplexer. This cable will be carrying both the OTA and the DSS signal. Then run the line from one diplexer to one room and the line from the other diplexer to the second room. In each of those rooms, connect the single line to the other two diplexers you have left. This will seperate the signals back into two cables in each room. You can then watch either DSS or OTA on both TVs. You will only need a multi-switch if you want to use more than two DSS receivers. You should be able to do all of this for about $35 plus the cost of cable.
Curtis
er make that Rex, unless he's lifting prescriptions too ;-)
Curtis
Good morning gang. Did you catch the blurb the other day aobut the NY Times film critic Rx Reed? Seems he was arrested for shoplifting 3 CD's from a Tower Records store. What's up with that? I would have been less surprised if he were nabbed at Victoria's Secret stashing a Marv Albert collection of naughty underthings.
BAGMAN
mcb: PS Audio PP300, let me start off by saying that if you have already done the research on this unit... believe the reviews from the "real" people. I won't really go over the sonic benifits in any detail,it has proven to me that the reviews are accurate. I will tell you that if you think your system is quiet now,it will get even quieter! I've had it in my system for a couple of months now so it is hard for me to remember the sound before installing it,but I don't want to take it out. I had a friend over and he summed it up by saying that my room "sounds" bigger. Not sure what he was trying to say,but am guessing that he might have been saying less constrained. The adjustable power factor is interesting,we have found that in our system a power factor of 65 sounds the best to us. Some people like it set as high as 120,I suspect this is system dependent. I have my Casa Nova,DSS receiver,HRS box plugged into it with one spot left empty. It is using/putting out 140-150 watts at this point. I've done this in a hurry so feel free to ask any specific question you may have. To sum it up,money well spent!
Wayne
Kieran: I know the local Recoton Outlet sells a splitter for dual LNB's. It has three inputs one antenna and two LNB connections and then four outputs, TV's 1-4. I believe you'll need a receiver at each of the four ends, and I'm not sure how the antenna works. For $30, I thought I'd give it a try. I've always had a dual LNB, but have never used the second connection. I had to get a grounding block to ground both cables from the dish, extra cable, and even more cable for the dual run to run to the splitter. Now I just have to go into the attic and hook everything up.
Darian
JOHNO: You still out there?
Darian
TonyC. Alan and I have the day off. You still in the area. We could go and terrorize the local stores!
NeoSonic
Hmmm, whenever they were offering the free T-shirt for signing up, that's when I joined.
RichardS at 10:00AM EST
Good Morning Folks!
Fernando
Neo: if that's when they started the program, me too :b
AVB
Mic: None yet. You interested?
NeoSonic
Fernando: I've been a Marquee member since October. =P
Fernando
NJMike: I posted the info last night, which translates to about 4 posts ago for me. Just scroll down a bit. It's an incredibly awesome deal.
Tony C
Wild Bill: I was telling my custmers the same thing last night at dinner. BTW, I'm hanging out in the southern part of your fine state. Home later today.
NJMike
Fernando - I am on the Marquee program but didn't get any email yesterday regarding this new policy. Tell me more!!
Fernando
Good Morning Ron, Gang....
I certainly thought more people would be stoked about this Netflix program. Aren't we movie lovers? Unlimited DVDs each month for $16? Best thing since slice bread? yes!
Ron H
Good Mornng all.
mic
AVB: any takers on the lcr2400 yet ?
mic
miss a couple of days and bam ! too bad it came to this. I have no problem with the names/people mentioned for the jobs.
Wild Bill
Kieran: Does the $249 model have the same receiver as the $99 model? Remember you need two receivers for dual LNB. Does the $249 model have Dolby Digital and the $99 doesn't? Why is it a rip off if RCA wants to make money? One thing I've noticed about the Internet is that everyone seems to want everything for free or dirt cheap. These companies DO have a right to make money from their sales. It's called the law of supply and demand. If the market will bear the price and they can charge it then they will. I'll step off my soapbox now.
BYork
Michael"El", Tony C - Both of your bios are linked again
Tony C
Curtis: Enjoy.
Scott "popcorn"
AVB: The answer is three or four. One in the living room (the HT, or an additional one if there is a dedicated HT), one in the bedroom, and one in the bathroom (for watching while soaking in the tub. :) )
NeoSonic
There's that word again: immoral...
Kieran
Uh, thanks, mr. no-name... I read you the first time.
Kieran: Don't forget about the immoral option of using a test card on those DirecTV boxes. The whole world for free, or at least until the next ECM happens. Some people have had zero interuption of service for 2+ years without any stupid upgrades to their cards.
AVB
All you need to convert a single LNB to dual is the dual output LNB itself. The dish is the same. I haven't seen a dual LNB for $30 but I have for $45.
AVB
Kieran: OK but to do what you want that is how to go about it. I'm running the same thing myself with lines to 4 rooms. One isn't hooked up to anything right now , I mean how many TVs does a single guy need?
Kieran: Don't forget about the immoral option of using a test card on those DirecTV boxes. The whole world for free, or at least until the next ECM happens. Some people have had zero interuption of service for 2+ years without any stupid upgrades to their cards.
Kieran
Is it me, or is RCA ripping people off with their $249.00 system? (see the link I posted about 1.5 screens down from this one) The only difference I see between their $99 system and the $249.00 system, is that the $249 one offers dual lnb output for multiple receivers. The receiver seems to be the same as the one that comes with the $99 system! $150.00 for multi-room capability? give me a break! What am I missing? Curtis, didn't you say there's a $30 accessory to convert the single lnb dish to a dual one?
NeoSonic
Ooops...I remember...
NeoSonic
Curtis: I'm opening a X.com account. What's your email so you can get the credit or whatever?
Kieran
AVB: right now, I'm just doing a "feasability study" as it were... I don't have a dish, or a second receiver. I have the DTC-100 hdtv tuner, which is also a DirectV receiver, so I've been thinking about my options for DirecTV.
AVB
Kieran: You'll need the Multiswitch and 2 diplexers then. The 2 lines from the dish and the OTA antenna feed into the multiswitch and then you diplex the signals back out at the DSS reciever and TV. You should be able to buy everything for under $100 if you do some shopping. I think MCM has a sale at the moment.
Curtis
Kieran: I forgot to mention they were all design engineers in the R&D department. My dad would have been 84 in a couple-o-weeks. If these old coots had the tools available today they would have done amazing things. Kinda like if Borg had access to today's rackets - look out! You forgot the most important tool of all they used, the eraser. My maternal grandfather was also a design engineer and superb graphic artist who happened to be on the board of John Deere for 40+ years. It staggers the imagination to think what he could have done with even the most basic computer tools. He died in '69 and never got to see any of it. You are just plain spoiled & don't ever forget it. Stepping off the box now & returning the rest of you to HT nirvana.
Kieran
Curtis, in that case, wanna sell me just the dish part?
Kieran
That should read, "... had a partY for the 40th..."
Kieran
Curtis: Thanks for that story... I work with some very old timers... maybe not as far back as your dad, but pretty far... Today, we had a part for the 40th service anniversary of a woman who's been working for the company on and off since 1952... she's well into her 70's, and says they'll have to carry her out on a gurney before she'll retire! Amazing. She's a drafter, believe it or not... Not to common a job for women during the era when she started. We had another two 70+ year olds retire in the las 2 years. Both WWII veterans, and had been working the drafting board (more recently CAD tube) for about 40 years each as well. One guy, one of our most talented senior mechanical engineers, responsible for designing several famous MDC products, has been with the company for going on 43 years. He'll be 65 this year, and plans on retiring this summer. I love talking with some of these old timers, about how it was done "in their day". It's amazing what the engineering industry was capable of with just a pencil, paper, and a slide rule.
Curtis
Kieran: It be the 1st one, the 2122RD. Now that I know I got ripped off I don't seem to feel any better. I think I'll just keep it for the bedroom TeeVee as I have an unused port on my dual LNB Sony/DD dish. Rat Shack SCREWS PEOPLE during the holidaze!!
Kieran
Curtis: of these three, which do you think yours was? RCA DirecTV packages.
Curtis
Kieran: My dad was in charge of 500+ engineers at International Harvester in the 60's & 70's who all toiled on good old drafting tables. They produced an amazing amount of good quality work too. A few years before he passed away when I was visiting him in Chicago he insisted that we raid the old office (then a Caterpillar division after IH went in the tank).The building was the same but the equipment was all CAD terminals. Only a few of the near retired guys were left. Some of the young studs showed the old man what could be done with the new hard/software & he was totally blown away by it! Only problem was that he was in the advanced stages of Parkinson's disease and never did get the chance to see what computers can do for engineering. Consider youself lucky to be doing what you do at this time.
Curtis
AVB: A big chunk of it was the friends & family shares of XMCM, where by broker was supposed to have witheld a big piece but "forgot". I was only too happy to cash a 3 hour profit check without checking the #'s. In retrospect I should have held it till it hit $100 @ share a few weeks ago as NBCI. 20/20 hindsite really is perfect, ain't it?
Fernando
ugh. can't wait to get this thing fixed
Fernando
Kieran
AVB: my ignorance of DSS is showing... So with a dual LNB, there are TWO lines coming from the dish? I didn't realize that. Basically, here's what I'd like to do: put a dish on the roof with my OTA antenna, and be able to watch both DSS and OTA programming on both the bedroom tv, and the main room tv, each tv would have it's own receiver.
Kieran
We're getting new CAD workstations here at work sometime next week. Totally awesome IBM Intellistations, loaded to the max for cAD performance... Xeon 550 processors, top of the line industrial CAD graphics card, 512MB ram (a little low, IMHO...) and, hold on to your shorts... 21" Sony WEGA digital monitors! If only I could take the monitor home with me every day.... ;^)
AVB
Gar: I'm on IRC now. 22:45 EST
AVB
Kieran: A diplexer won't combine both feeds from the DSS and an antenna. If you want to be able to watch different DSS on two or more recievers and/or watch off air on one and DSS on the other then you need the multiswitch. Has to do with the fact the DSS cable has power on it. This is the best and recommended way to do it. Your idea may work but......
Gar
AVB: Do you still have IRC? I have a couple of questions to ask you on Amps. THanks Gar
T-Man
Well now that the kids are in bed, I can check out the forum again. You know, I don't know if I have ever heard anyone talk about owning Linn speakers since I've been associated with this forum (going on two years now). Are they hard to get, just not that desirable or what. I was rereading an old review of one of their lines the other day and as always, it was very positive. Anybody own these things?
AVB
Curtis: You must have had a hell of a good year if you owe that much. I've had to hurt the checking account before but not to that extent.
Kieran
AVB: How come if you have a dual LNB, you couldn't just use a splitter after second diplexer? So you'd have one diplexer combine the antenna signal with the DSS signal, then another diplexer to seperate the two signals, then once seperated, couldn't you just split the DSS signal, sending one output to one receiver, and another output to the other receiver (yes, I'm thinking of a system w/ two receivers and two TV's... i.e. bedroom and main room).
NeoSonic
You make it sound like there's something wrong with panicing!
Curtis
AVB: This is all your fault 'cause you reminded me to tend to my taxes the other night on chat! I suppose I should thank you - better to deal with it now than panic on April 15th.
AVB
Kieran: If you have a single LNB then all you need are two diplexers. One to combine and one to split. If you have a dual LNB then you'll need a multiswitch and a diplexer for every TV in the house to split out the off air signals (and DSS if you have another reciever.)
Kieran
Curtis: keep me posted about the dish. I know that the basic RCA package goes for $99 right now at Rat Shack, and I think most other places, too (Good Guys, et al.)
Curtis
Tony C: The only bit of good news today came on my doorstep from the UPS dude. I had to be carefull not to step in the crap ;-) Thanks man.
Curtis
Kieran: I could be mistaken. I'll dig up the reciept. It wasn't the plain vanilla model.
Kieran
Curtis, well, if you ever do need a different tax guy, or legal advice for tax or financial matters, drop me a line. He's got a very loyal clientelle... for good reasons- price and quality of service. I'll test the waters with him about the TW. He's been talking about wanting a widescreen TV (hates watching letterbox dvd's), but I think the 65" behemoth would be a little beyond his scope. You never know though...
Curtis
There's a good chance I may be able to keep my baby if I can sell some artwork instead. They're some beautiful paintings yet the picture never changes. Getting retail $$ these days for art is not an easy task. With all the money in $ilicon Valley you would think that people would have better tastes!
Fernando
Well this is cool:
Netflix just changed their Marquee program to Unlimited Rentals for the same monthly fee. That is definitely a great deal. You still can have only 4 out t one time but you can rent as many as you want for the same $16 fee. So you could watch a movie every night. Two movies every night, then send em back and just keep em coming. Hell, that would be 60 movies a month for $16 bucks. Sounds too good to be true, but it isn't. Netflix REALLY rules.
Kieran
Curtis: You paid $200 for a single lnb system from Rat Shack? I thought their basic package was $99.00... it was the last time I was there. Or did you buy a better receiver or something? Just wondering how it got up to $199...
Curtis
Kieran: It's a single LNB, easily modified to dual via a $30 replacement part from the store that will never see me again.
Kieran
All: Anybody know of a way to combine a DSS signal with an antenna signal into the same coax, to run from the roof to the inside, and then seperate the signals again? I thought I heard that this was possible, maybe I misunderstood or heard wrong...
Curtis
Kieran: My tax guy is an old family friend who really knows his stuff backwards & forwards so it would be very tricky to fire him. You should have seen how much higher the tab was after the 1st pass! Get your old man down here - look at the side benefits for you when you go home to visit ;-)
Kieran
Nice grammar, Kieran... that should read, "Curtis: DOES that DTV dish you are selling have a dual LNB?"
Wild Bill
NeoSoldierBoy: LOL! At least you got a kick out of something in the post.
Kieran
Curtis is that DTV dish you're selling have a dual lnb?
Kieran
Curtis: I'm sure you have a great tax man, but... if you are at all looking for a new one, I'd like to suggest my father. His office is in San Francisco, and he's one of the best, most affordable, tax preparers around, and he's also an attorney, specializing in financial law, financial planning, wills, trusts, estates, etc. He's self employed, if that matters to you. Email me if you'd like his phone number. Sorry to hear you're having to sell your baby. I wish I could buy it!!! (Actually, my Dad my be interested.... maybe.... it's a little pricey, but you never know...)
Fernando
Hey guys, Ryan responded to the email I sent him with my info and said he'll transfer it over to me. I said fine. I don't care if it stays in my name or I transfer it to BYork, whatever. It's just a technicality which name it's under. Frankly, I'd rather BYork handle it but I just want this thing back in our control. I'll keep you posted.
BYork: if you're out there (it's currently 10:08 EST) email Ryan that stuff Neo mentioned and he can turn it over to you instead of me.
Curtis
In plain english, my Toshiba TW65H80 & iScan are up for sale at the link I posted below.
Gar
Man did this place go to hell quickly. Kind of Ironic that Ryan bolts out of here with is so called code, and nude pictures start poping up. Oh well at least they look good. :)
"EL"
Neo: Fine with me, if the 16 works for you on the 15th...whatever powers your speakers...
Curtis
NeoSonic: You know this is a never-ending upgrade process. Damned consulting can kill you on taxes. It'll get replaced eventually by something even nicer. Yeah, suddenly the picture never looked better!
NeoSonic
Dang...trying to be a smartass and screw up the Zulu conversion....0250Z
NeoSonic
0150Z - 16 Feb 00
How's this, "El"?
NeoSonic
Curtis: Can you never keep equipement? =P
I bet you're missing it already.
"EL"
2/15/6:48 p.m. It would also help, I think, if we include at the beginning of our posts the date and time...
"EL"
Good evening, guys...well, looks like we're back to another square...not necessarily square one...but at least our curent status allow us the integrity to begin anew and customize our site as we develop...and with autonomy.
Curtis
As LBJ would have said "it is with a heavy heart that I offer the following" You guys should be allowed an early crack at it. http://208.186.16.166/cfb/thread.cfm?CFB=1&Tid=45415
NeoSonic
I'm laughing more at the part where you use the word "my" next to "intellectual".
Wild Bill
I've trademarked "Gang of Four" so if you want to use it from now on it is my intellectual property and there will be a licensing fee of $1 for each usage of the term. LOL!
Wild Bill
ishtar: The GE Imager 601 is an NEC 6PG. It has 7" CRTs and scans to 61hz. A good, solid CRT projector. Do you have one or are you buying? What price is being offered? They were made up until 1994, I believe.
NeoSonic
"Gang of Four"(Fernando, AVB, Scott "pop", and BYork): Please check your mailboxes for incoming mail from me.
Curtis
JohnO: This won't help you out tonight but I have a brand new RCA DSS receiver/dish that I'll sell for $100. Bought it as a housewarming gift for a friend who didn't tell me about the huge bank of trees totally blocking the southeast. By the time I got the news & attempted to get a refund from Rat Shack they refused to do anything because it was 32 days after the purchase date. Policy is 30 days. Turds, that's the last penny they get out of me. New price was $199.
NeoSonic
JohnO
Well, Cox cable isn't doing itself any favor tonight. This is the final night of the Westminster Dog Show, except half the channels are not working. Guess which half? Anyone know of a good satellite dealer?
NeoSonic
Just being the messenger...=(
Kieran
Funny, I sent him all of the above, except for snail mail. He could have replied and told me he needed snail mail, too. And, I then told him to contact BYork, and he didn't do that either.
NeoSonic
He needs someone(whoever is going to take over the account) to send him their name, address, eddress and phone #.
RGB
AVB: Why do we need the DVD - we've got this site! LOL
Curtis
nevermind - I got in. There's something wrong with my bowser, er browser ;-)
Curtis
Is anyone else having trouble getting past the front door of www.digitaltheater.com?
Fernando
Whatever. He left us an email address to write to but he's not responding. What else are we supposed to do?
Neo: if you talk to him again on ICQ please tell him to call BYork or email him because we are anxious to move forward.
LeoV (HTCal)
Hi Folks, Boy! This place just keeps on changing. ;-) I know there are many Lexicon fans here so I hope you can help me. I am trying to locate the specs on a Lexicon CP-1 Surround Processor. I just ran across one that I buy for $150 CND. I wanted to use it to decode the dicrete surround channels to produce an homemade EX setup. Now, I think I know the answer already, but do you guys think that I should pick up this unit? Specs would be really great however. Thanks for any input.
NeoSonic
IRC! DALNet #home-theater
NeoSonic
Kieran: You have to register domains intially for two years with yearly reregistrations.
The Domain is not in my name, it is in Ryan's name. The Superb.Net account is as well.
AVB
TRIVIA: Elton John called this singer the best he has ever heard. Who is it? I got a few porno DVDs from my friend so you are playing for "Awesome Asians". Normal rules apply.
Kieran
NeoSonic: if you were just ICQ'ing with Ryan, what did he say? What's going on, and why hasn't he contacted BYork or myself?
Kieran
Neo: "I've made the payment for HTOC.net so that domain is ours for the next two years. "What do you mean? You've paid another year's worth? Is the site in your name? I thought Ryan did all the registration and stuff. Could you elaborate?
Kieran
Fernando: BYork and I have already tried.... do you think bombarding him is a good idea?
NeoSonic
Oops....Keiran was supposed to be Kieran! Sorry dude!
NeoSonic
I also told him that if he didn't hear from anyone by Friday that I'd be happy to take the account and domain off his hands. I do like Keiran's idea of a "nonadmin" having the reins and the ability to get them back if required.
If it sounds like I'm volunteering, it's because I am!
NeoSonic
Fernando: I don't know why you guys haven't heard from him. I was just ICQing with him.
I've made the payment for HTOC.net so that domain is ours for the next two years.
Fernando
Hey gang. Since no one's heard from Ryan I'm going to email him and try to get him to send the info to Brian or me.
Kieran: You're right that we want it setup so the pics can't be posted in the first place. But since that may take a while I have no problem with using the quicker solution BYork proposed for now. We're all going to be working towards having things the way they were.
ishtarbgl
Has anyone ever heard of a GE imager 601 projector? I think it might be the same as an NEC 6pg or 6pg+ but I am not sure. I am trying to find out horizontal frequency, light output, and when it was manufactured. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Ron H
RickMTB: I understand. Best of luck to you.
RickMTB
Ron H, thanks for the invite, but I think tomorrow's going to be a combination of hectic and nervewracking, so I probably won't be a good dinner companion when I arrive. Hopefully Thursday goes well and I will need to return, during that trip I will hope to link up with you for dinner. Richard S. ouch! that one was old! ;-)
AVB
Here is some info on the LCR-2400. I see the list price is up to $499 now. http://www.tripplite.com/catalog/conditioners/lcr_2400.html
JBC
Later guys... have agreat evening!!!
AVB
Kieran: The Tripplite lists for about $400 the Cinepro for $1800. They both attempt to do the same thing but the Cinepro does a better job.
Ron H
I guess to keep things fair I should post some pictures of men for the women out there. I bet that would get the problem resolved quickly. LOL
Ron H
RickMTB: The humidity is fine today. This is not close to summer weather. This is wonderful weather. It needs to be upper 90's with 90% or more humidity to classify as summer. Yep we have been running th A/C for most the winter this year. It has been extra warm. We are showing mostly cloudy with a high of 84 on Wednesday and tommorow.Thursday qwill be mostly cloudy with a high of only 74. If you want to meet for dinner or something the evening you arrive let me know.
AVB
A better power conditioner.
Yes... they're real !
Kieran
AVB: so, what's the Cinepro PowerPro 20 do then?
AVB
Power Conditioner made by Tripplite Kerian.
Kieran
AVB:What is a "Tripplite LCR-2400" anyway?
AVB
This means I'll have a Tripplite LCR-2400 up for sale if anyone wants it. 20 amp ability 14 recepticles - $150 plus shipping.
AVB
Whooo!!! Cinepro PowerPro 20 for $950 delivered. I'm writing the check now.
RichardS:
RickMTB: Boy! Your arms are going to be tired. (Sorry guys, I couldn't resist)
RickMTB
Ron H, I fly in tomorrow evening. Supposedly I have appointments set for 9am through 3:3opm and then I fly back between 5pm and 6pm. Looks like you are having summer weather... though the reports say "chance of showers". Is the humidity super high?
Ron H
Yes the images can not be posted. Deleting them after the fact could be too late. All it will take is the wrong employee to wander into my office. Can you say loss of job and a sexual harassment lawsuit.
Curtis
Recall that reverse auction site I told you about last week, www.liquidprice.com ? I asked for pricing on about a dozen items, including a TA-E9000ES and TW65X81 and only received bid for 4 of the 12 I requested within the 2 business day limit. The problewm seems to be that they simply don't have enough vendors signed up and/ or they have no inventory. Live and learn.
Wild Bill
JohnO: ;-) The case may be the tough one in your case (no pun intended). Getting a quiet, black, desktop case with enough expansion slots in the right format will not give you many options. I doubt you'll find a discounted item. Let me know what prices you find for the GeForce. From what I can see it's a $200 video card. nVidia seems to be the most popular out there. I know that several video board makers use the GeForce chipset.
Wild Bill
Neo is OK with me also. We can easily get the leg breakers to him from where I live if he screws up. LOL!
Gar
Don't forget the old forum is still up and running. And I think it has ISP addresses listed.
Gar
hmmm, need ISP tracking...... Well I can tell you were the pics came from. Anglefire.com Well the culprit always leaves a trail..... At least they have good taste.
Kieran
BYork: I think that functionality is what a lot of people DON'T want (someone correct me if I'm wrong). If we just disable images all together, I think the rest we can deal with on a "self policing" basis.
Kieran
BYork: no word from Ryan.
BYork
ALL who are posting from work...I DON'T HAVE ACCESS YET!!! Kieran - have you heard from Ryan yet??
BYork
All - There are a number of cgi programs that have been set up with an admin interface that works off the WWW, and provides a "delete specific post" capability. I suspect we should be able to incorporate womething like THAT here, with a little effort. THAT will make inappropriate posts a pretty trivial item to resolve. More as I dig further...
Fernando
is this thing on? didn't i say that already?...;)
JohnO
CAI: I don't run IRC from home, but you can call me. If you are still at netscape.net, I sent you my home phone number.
JJ
The problem with turning off the images: try surfing any other site out there. Pages won't make sense.
better to stop loading the forum page before the images load.
Kieran
I thought of an easy solution for those of you here at work... as long as just the displaying of objectionable images is the only problem, just turn off images on your web browser. That's what I did. Since www.htoc.net is not a blacklisted site, it won't cause any flags to go up for my network admins here at work. Then, as long as images are off, I'm fairly safe. I'm still going to be scarce for a while, since I have a lot of work to do anyway, and this whole htoc thing has been distracting me a little too much.
Curtis
JJ: Sorry man. I thought you said to put up ads of dealers we frequent, not the kinds of DVD rental & sales outlets you just mentioned. As Rosanne Rosanadana would say "never mind" ;-)
cai
JOHNO: I would like to ask you a few questions, are you available for IRQ sometime this week?
cai
I am OK with "gang of four". Just leave your real names and addresses so we know where to send the lynching party when you screw-up.
JJ
Curtis: I was confused by your post about advertising. I was thinking, reel, netflix, web stuff. Members click thru using our links for shopping, we get money for more space, pro forum software, whatever.
then you threw me off with the krall post. Unfortunately, I don't have dts capability.
David
Isn't there an IP address being recorded somewhere so we can tell who is posting the inappropriate pictures?
JJ
Curtis: I'm lost.
Gasgeek
By the way, I took my M&K S-1B's turned them upside down and mounted them as surrounds. They're great as surrounds. I can't believe how much more info I'm getting compared to the S-80's. By the way, the Meadowlark's are sounding awesome.
Curtis
JJ: If you have a dts decoder & want to hear a great 5.1 remix the one to get is Diana Krall's "Love Scenes", Impulse/GRP # 71021-51044-2-3. Probably not something you're gonna find in the local basement store unless they stock dts titles. The stereo version is quite good as well but can't hold a candle to it. My 2nd choice is her most recent "When I Look in Your Eyes" - Verve, stereo only available. Scott/Pop: Sounds fair enough. My fear was that text might be deleted that had nothing to do with porno or cussing.
JohnO
Neo is ok with me for POC of the domain, I know what he looks like and where he lives. :)
Gasgeek
Jeez! I go away for a day, have a great birthday and return to this. Thanks everyone for the birthday wishes. Now, let's get down to busines and fix this shit. BYork. do your magic dude before someone gets fired over the juvenile moron posting below. By t
NeoSonic
All: I still have the extra that was sent above and beyond the money needed to get the space on Superb.net.
Only one small kink. The domain registration was actually $70 on top of the $263 for S.N. The domain htoc.net has not been officially paid for yet. Any takers?
I'd be glad to do it(be POC for the domain) as I have all y'alls money, but I defer to the group.
JohnO
Wild Bill and Cai: Picked up the first piece of the Home Theater PC today, a Sound Blaster Live, Value, OEM (white box) sound card. Model CT4830, with the yellow digital out jack on the back. Price $59 locally. Also picked up the Radio Shack mono 1/8" to RCA adapter, $3.69. The next purchase will have to wait until payday.
BYork
Scott"popcorn" - I'll send you the code if/when I can. Since the group seems to agree (R)SML is one of the first things to add, I think you should take a crack on quickly installing it.
The next 4 things I want to see us try to add back in are:
- Remembering our name, rather than having to type it again
- date/time/ip in the "from" part of posts
- posting only the most recent messages, instead of the entire thread
- some sort of archiving capability
In the meantime, I'm trolling through other cgi's that I know of to see fi there are other features we might want to incorporate. How about setting up an automatic link from our names to our bios
Fernando
BYork: understood. i'll catch you when i can.
JJ
Curtis - ??
Scott "popcorn"
Re: Censorship... No, I don't like "censorship". However, there are those that can't behave in a socially acceptable manner, and therefore need to be censored. In an ideal world, people would act responsibly and we wouldn't need censorship. That's my feeling. Unfortunately, it's not an ideal world.
My plan if I can get the forum code is to have the forum code strip out HTML in posts, and incorporate SML. The only way to format posts would be to use SML in that case. We could then work from there.
Fernando
T-Man: yeah, what BYork said....
BYork
Fernando - no guarantees. I'll try to be available, but it's typically pretty late, and PST. (family comes first...!)
Fernando
BYork: we should touch base tonight if possible to see how you want to proceed. If it's okay I'll ICQ you. Mainly I just want to discuss the main page, overall setup, and overall design.
JBC
At the risk of changing the subject here goes.... Tony C: The M&K 150Ps are the same as the M&K 150s, they just add an amp. Happy that HT found them to be so impresive. Wishe they would review the 250s....Curtis, which Diana Krall do you suggest buddy. There is a CD store in the basement of my building and I am there 5 minutes after you respond...
NJMike
Speaking of DIY cables, there was an article in HomeTheater about a few months back.
Curtis
Kieran: re SBC DSL price cuts. They are the parent of my DSL provider, pacbell. I called them and was told there will be no price reductions in CA because demand is far too high. No breaks on equipment either. When I asked about the article the reply was that the deals are going into the areas where business is slow. At least the guy was honest about it.
BYork
cgi = Common Gateway Interface. It's the built-in capability in HTML/HTTP to allow for interaction with programs from a browser. You can write to it using any number of languages, including Visual Basic, perl, C, etc.
Curtis
re: censorship. Didn't we just cover this a week or so ago? My memory is that Scott/Pop was very much for it. Pop: What's your stand these days?
Curtis
JJ: The only problem with local dealers advertising here or anywhere is that they can land themselves in big trouble if they sell to consumers who live in other dealers territories (assuming we would offer ecommerce via the ads). Tell me how many authorized dealers of M-L or B&W speakers you can find on the web? They know they risk losing entire product lines if caught or even appearing to sell on someone elses turf.
BYork
JJ - no....I didn't post an acceptance. I assumed everyone knew that I would be willing to do whatever is necessary for our group to move www.htoc.net forward. (and ENJOY doing so) so, incase it's necessary...I accept the nomination.
Ron H
It's obvious what the first thing we need to do is.
T-Man
Fernando, not to show my techy ignorance, but what is cgi?
Fernando
you know guys, some browsers have a way to disable auto-loading of images. you should check yours out.....
RGB
We definately need to get the SML code in here to eliminate the juvenile postings here. Anyone know when someone will be getting the needed info from Ryan?
Fernando
RGB: OF COURSE your help is needed! We still don't have any access though. The area I'm pretty sure we need help is in the cgi. I will be absolutely no help there.
T-Man
Just as bad as work is in your family room with kids in the room. Soon as schools out I gotta go.
RGB
So no one needs my help with any admin/programmer assistance? No problem, just wanted to let everyone know I'd be available if need be.
Kieran
Okay, I'm outta here until BYork or somebody get's the password and fixes this. I'm at work and can't have these pictures showing up indiscriminantly. Hope you all can solve things!
T-Man
Come on man!
Fernando
Kieran: you KNOW i love you dude. you're my first nominee when we vote. just trying to keep things flowin smooth. :)
T-Man
Hey just because I'm off today and just replaced the kitchen faucet doesn't mean I'm enjoying a Bloody Mary as we speak. Okay, I admit it. (and its extra spicy too!) On an official note, I also favor the SML and the Gang of Four.
JJ
re admins, passwords, etc: [voice="Qui-Gon Jinn"]I'm certain a solution will present itself.[/voice]
Fernando
Kieran: My opinion - too paranoid. I'm a trusting person and trust BYork and AVB (and myself) not to wig out over the next year and make this place their own little empire. (Scott declined on admin info). I mean c'mon - if that happened we'd all just leave and start a new site. So we'd have each lost our $6. Big deal. I trust us to work together like decent people for the coming year. I don't think that's asking too much.
Kieran
Fernando: Well... I didn't volunteer to step down immediately, just if some people really wanted me to. But apparently they do, so.... okay, whatever. Sorry.
Wild Bill
Fernando: Resistance is futile! LOL!
Fernando
All: PLEASE remember the SOP for dealing with stuff like this. ignore it.
Kieran
All: Fernando mentioned changing the password. This brings up an interesting point that I've been pondering since last week, when all this mess started with Ryan. As far as our IPP (Superb Internet) is concerned (or any IPP/ISP for that matter), what we're talking about doing (having more than one person with knowledge of the password) is a BIG no-no. They can't stop you from doing it, and there's no RULES against it (usually) but they HIGHLY discourage it. The problem is, that anybody with the password can change the password, and the other admins would have no recourse to stop that from happening. My idea of having a "backup" administrator was an attempt at solving this problem, or at least having a way out, should this become a problem. I've been thinking though, that we should change the concept a little bit. The problem with my "backup admin" idea is that if one of the admins decided to get a complex, he/she can change the password at any time. So, even if the "backup" had the original password written down, this wouldn't help any.
I'm not sure how the registration with Superb.net went, but usually, you have to supply your name, address, credit card, and phone number. Sometimes an ISP or IPP will ask for more info, but not usualy. This means that there has to be ONE person, who is the "owner" of the service that has been bought, on record with the IPP. This person *should* if Superb.net is like other IPP/ISP's, be able to call customer support, say he's lost his password, and have them send him a new one.
This process is what I think would occur in an "emergency" like we had with Ryan. The "backup" person would be the one registered with the IPP. In the event that the group decides that one or all of the administrators should be dropped, the "backup" would call the IPP, and get a new password.
Now, this has a couple of implications. We need to call up Superb.net and explain to them the situation, and that we need to change the information about who is the registered "owner" of the site and domain. To do this, we may need Ryan's cooperation, which might prove difficult in getting. The main implication is this: we have to decide on ONE person whom we all trust to have ultimate responsibility of the site information.
Is this acceptable? Can anybody think of a different way? Am I being too paranoid?
Wild Bill
I'm a very strong maybe on the cables. So, who want to build a DIY sub with me?
Fernando
I'm a maybe on the DIY cables. Just not too soon....
Wild Bill
To Whomever: If that was to my benefit as a response to my last post then you could have e-mailed the image. That way, no one will LOSE THEIR JOB or get THEIR BALLS BUSTED at work because you decided to be an idiot and post the image. Very bad form!
Fernando
nice.... welp. we obviously have some problem children in our forum. whatever. we'll deal with it when we get our control back.
JJ
Anybody else interested in going in on the DIY tools?
JJ
what's wrong with people?
Wild Bill
Well, that didn't take long. Can anyone clean that up yet?
JohnO
JJ: No problem, seems a shame for multiple people to spend $200 for something they only need about one day a year.
JJ
JohnO, cai: re DIY cables. keep me in the loop for us North northern VA (read: NJ) members. I'd be up for a group purchase, or I'd rent the tools from you guys.
JohnO
JJ: I think it is 40 meg.
JohnO
Yes on SML and the Gang of Four.
JohnO
Cai: I know of no place locally that sells the crimp-on connectors, Markertek is as good as any online cable store. The real advantage of DIY cables is that once you have the stripper, crimper, cable, etc. you can make custom length audiophile quality cables for the price of two ends ($6-8 dollars) and 15 minutes of your time. Don't think Radio Shack Gold, think high end Monster Cable or better. You can even make it pretty with cable braid and heat shrink tubes if you want. We should talk about buying this stuff together, no point in having two sets of these tools in Northern VA. As you saw, I already have a lifetime supply of cable.
Wild Bill
I'm OK with the "Gang of Four" to get us up and runnung initially.
JJ
anybody know how much server space we've got at out disposal?
Wild Bill
Fernando: I agree. While I don't find the occaisional nekked picture objectionable ;-) I can see that it would be a problem if you accessed the forum fromt he workplace. I access from my home office so it's no big deal to me. I have no one looking over my shoulder. I'm not advocating pornography, I just don't have the issues at work that some of you may have.
JJ
BYork: I don't remember anyone actually asking you if you wished be an admin. or did I miss your acceptance of the nomination?
Fernando
yes on SML, yes on Ryan posting, no on Ryan with any control. sorry, but he shown he can't be trusted to do the right thing. if he wants to be involved he can do so without having direct access. i assume we can change the password....
JJ
That didn't take long.
Fernando
WB: I gotcha. the reason i said "I think..." is cuz I was just guessing what people though the responsibilities might be. Unless porn rears its head which is really unlikely, were not gonna have to worry about censorship at all.
All: Since Kieran has volunteered to withdraw, at least for now, what say We go with BYork and I and Scott and AVB and elect others later when things are more settled?
Wild Bill
I'm not opposed to Ryan possibly coming back as a member/poster but I do not support him in an official role in the design, programming or anything of this site. I talked HT with him for about 2 hours on Sunday night and will be happy to do that with him anytime.
Wild Bill
Hell, you guys could elect me to be forum whipping boy and I wouldn't care. LOL!
Wild Bill
RGB: I'm all for SML in this forum. The sooner the better.
cai
Sorry guys, trying to get the hang of things. It looks as if has to wait a little longer.
Wild Bill
CAI: Might want to hold off on the HTML, there buddy. ;-) We don't want or need a yellow forum on a white background (like that has happened before).
Wild Bill
David: Your idea to include Ryan was not "shot down by others". Everyone is getting a bit too touchy and excitable here. Others may have disagreed with your suggestion (I did) but noone shot it down. We're just expressing our viewpoints here. The same as we would do if you asked us about Denon, Marantz or Yamaha. Let's try to get the emotions out of this and make good, sound decisions together. If something I want doesn't happen I'm not going to get pissed and disappear, I won't be upset and I will not hold a grudge. I want what the members of this forum want as a group.
Kieran
All:Here's a free book offer: Philips is giving away copies of IDC's "DTV for Dummies" book. Just call the (888) number and give them your name and addy. It's that easy! (6-8 weeks for delivery, of course...) http://www.dtvcity.com/dtv/freebook.html
cai
The last post was for JOHNO
Kieran
Cai, that's a very BOLD statement you just made!!!! ;-)
cai
cai
I am reposting since my last message came out a little garbled. Another question related to the building of ones cables. Do you know of a place in our area that sells compression RCA connectors? The only one I know is Markertex in NY.
Wild Bill
ChrisL, Fernando, et. al.: Look, I'm not advocating censorship here. Fernando, these were YOUR words, "i think the main responsibility of a backup admin will be to delete extremely offensive posts according to pre-determined criteria". I was simply following through on your thought. Again, I like Kieran but I feel that if that responsibility is to be given then we should consider others also.
BYork
Kieran - Got it. (I really shouldn't send email from my work addr., so will have to wait until tonite to contact Ryan)
BYork
its all straight html now. HEre's the code to use to get what you're looking for: - for bold use <b> and </b>
- for color use <font color=xxx> and </font>
- for a new paragraph, use <p>
THe hidden benefit is you learn actual html. OTOH, it's much easier to make a mistake...it's not as forgiving
Kieran
BYork, email coming your way!
RGB
So is everyone up for re-incorporating SML (was RSML - Scott's Markup Language) into our upcoming forum?
[b c teal; JBC]
What happened? All was working well yesterday morning until 9:00 AM EST then .... KAPUT! This is the first I have been able to get in!
cai
[COLOR=green]I guess I forgot how to use "bold", "color", and "paragraph" in this old/new forum. Is this UBB code or HTML code?[/COLOR]
BYork
er, sorry. Last was directed at cai..
BYork
JohnO - You gotta use actual html right now here. The RSML stuff want away when Ryan removed his scgi script.
Kieran
Cai, looks like your html is correct, except for the fact that you need to use carats instead of brackets...! :-)
Fernando
Kieran: I appreciate the suggestion, but trust me, I have all these ideas already and just need the time to work them. Most important now I think, if no one objects, is me getting in touch with BYork to figure things out. Who does what, etc.
[b][color=purple]cai [/b][/color]
[b][color=green]JohnO:[/b]Another question related to the building of ones cables. Do you know of a place in our area that sells compression RCA connectors? The only one I know is Markertex in NY.[/color]
NJMike
This is all so disturbing. What a mess! I just hope this election thing happens quickly and the forum can get back to what's important...HOME THEATER!!
NeoSonic
oops
NeoSonic
RGB
Morning all. I take it we should be getting the info from Ryan shortly? I feel one of the first things that need to be added to this forum is time stamps. BYork: I concur with you about Ryan joining us, however I am worried that if he had admin or programmer duties, the same thing would happen all over again. Maybe I'm the one that's paranoid now, but we definately don't want this to happen again.
NeoSonic
Actually, I kind of like this whole miminalist thing...=P
Fernando
BYork: Yeah, that's coming. I just wanted to get SOMETHING started.
All:I agree with what Kieran said about backup admins and everything else. If we can all pretty much agree to those ideas I see no reason he can't be a backup admin. If those with previous concerns agree, we can just move forward with the current crew. I'm just trying to streamline things to avoid hassle that will take valuable time away from getting things moving forward.
Kieran
Fernando: here's my suggestion: Have the site open with the HTOC label, minus the tabs on the top. Have the label be a link to go to the "home" page. The home page would then have your tabs across the top, and the text and links from the front page of BYork's HQ. I like what BYork has said there, and it also has links to join/register and change bio, etc. What do you think?Also, can you make the tabs work, such that the clicked tab would move to the front? Not necessary, but it might be cool...
Kieran
Anyone have SBC for their local phone company? Here's some good news-- *** SBC cuts price for DSL Web service NEW YORK (AP) - SBC Communications Inc., the nation's biggest local phone company, is cutting the monthly fee and eliminating installation costs for high-speed Internet access via digital subscriber line, or DSL. The basic DSL service, currently available only in parts of SBC's 13-state region, will be reduced by $10 to $39.95 per month. The normal equipment and installation charges, frequently as much as $200 or $300, will be waived. SBC, the local phone company through most of the Southwest and Midwest, is the nation's largest DSL provider with 169,000 lines in service at the end of 1999. The price cuts are the latest move in an aggressive DSL strategy that SBC launched in October with a $6 billion plan to install the special equipment needed to provide the service throughout the company's territory. See http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2564255759-c34
David
Fernendo: I like the look you created. Simple, but elegant. It gets my vote.
David
BYORK: I agree re: Ryan. I suggested inviting him to come back as a posting member, but it was immediately shot down by a few people.
RichardS.
Kieran: Go to:
http://members.home.net/robnjen13/HTOCNet.html
Kieran
RichardS-
You wrote:
"Fernando: Very nice work, simple and elegant. :)" To what were you referring? Has Fernando posted a link to some new site he did?
Fernando... did I miss something?
JJ
Would something as simple as the script adding the html font, link, bold, etc tag at the end of each post stop the whole forum from being messed up?
BYork
RichardS - You know, you're probably right about why it's so much faster...
BYOrk
Wahoo! Caddyshack: SE comes out on 4/4! (I *LOVE* Bill Murray in this one!)
Fernando
cai
JOHNO: Besides the ability to cut connection runs to best suit ones needs, what other advantage is there in making your own RCA connectors using RG-6 cable. Is it cheaper than buying pre-set interconnect wires, Monster Cable, etc., or will there be a quality improvement due to known quality control issues, mine in this case. Do you recommend it. TO ALL: If you have to use profanity to express your points of view, I suggest you get a dictionary and a thesaurus and increase your vocabulary. A little education has never hurt anyone. Just my opinion on using foul language.
Kieran
All:If you don't like me don't vote for me. That's what the election is for. I never thought that being nominated meant you WERE elected.
As for the duties of what I was referring to as a "backup/just-in-case" admin... I imagined that this type of a person would have NO administrative duties. NO permission from the group to delete or change ANY part of the forum. (Personally, I don't want that kind of duty.) What this "backup" person would do, is have knowledge of, and copies of, the account information (i.e. password, username, contact information for support from our IPP) and possibly have his/her name registered on the account with the IPP. Basically, serve as a "vault" so to speak, so that if anything happened with the admin(s) the backup person would have all the necessary information to pass along to a new administrator. This backup person would only be "in the wings" so to speak. The reason why I suggested this, is so that if one of the people to whom we eventually grant admin access, turns into what Ryan became, (I don't suspect that of anyone here, but then most of us probably didn't suspect it of Ryan, either) then, WITH the approval of the group, the backup person could step in/up, so that the group was not at the whim and fancy of a "Ryan". (forgive my terminology... lack of a better word and all...)
Anyway, I don't think we should have ANY censorship at ALL. Except for the ability to post images, which currently is enabled. I think we should disable that. If somebody posts offensive words, well, as BYork's HQ site says, we are self policing. We can ignore the post, warn the offending poster, and move on.
To repeat... I don't really want any web administrative duties. I don't have a lot of extra time to help with coding, etc., anyway. If you all think that the "backup" person should have more duties that what I described, then make suggestions!
Curtis, Ron H., and Fernando--
I already appologized for my words. But I appologize again. I should not have used the words I did. However, I think my actions were justified. I had had enough of people repeatedly asking Ryan if he was willing to do this or that. I knew exactly what Ryan's issues were, and it seemed that a lot of people weren't very clear on them. Different versions of the same offer were continually presented to him, and he kept saying "no". I was not trying to be continually negative, but only to get things moving along, because, with my knowledge of I believe that my offensive post actually brought things to a "head" so to speak. And now we can move on. I emailed Ryan asking him not to leave, appologizing to him for how this ended, and indicating that I did like him, just not these specific actions. I never got any response.
Anyway, if we're to have an election, and you don't like my attitude/behavior, don't vote for me. If we're not going to have an election, and we're just going to keep those that have been nominated... and there are a few people who feel strongly enough, then I'll gladly step down as a nominee. No problem there at all. :-)
JJ
I agree with BYork re: Ryan and censorship. First we should get names bold with time stamp. then scott/ryan's ML.
At least we are functioning, as opposed to DTF...
RichardS:
BYork: Could it be that this "skeleton" is lighter to load?
Axis
I vote myself as the Head-Lurker.
BYork
Is it me, or is access to our site really fast this morning??
BYork
pron=porn
BYork
RE: censoring posts -- Why don't we agree pron doesn't belong and will be deleted ASAP, and use group consensus on any text that may/may not be objhectionable. As others have indicated, this isn't a frequent problem, and we should be able to handle anything other than porn as it occurs, rather than try and agree on some sort of stringent posting rules(that many newbies will never read anyways)
BYork
All - I received email from one of the other members, (I forget who now) that they have already contacted Ryan about getting the necessary id/password/URL/etc. so we can move forward. I really don't want to hassle Ryan at this point, as I REALLY hope he won't completely give up on the HTOC. If nobody minds, I'd like to give him a chance to respond to the first email before sending him another.
ALSO - I'd like to suggest that Ryan, if agreeable, might be another person to add to the admin list. I don't think there's any question he can do the work, and feel his input has been and can continue to be very valuable, at whatever level he's comfortable with.
BYork
Fernando - I like your tab idea. Two thoughts...
- shouldn't the image change to have the correct tab in front based on what you click? Right now, it always indicates you're on the HOME page
- Could you shrink the height, so we can recoup soem back to display the forum?
(OK, I admit it, I love having html-capability back in the forum!)
JJ
Fernando
JJ: right now i don't think the site needs money. we own this space for a year. all we need to do is get things going again which starts with BYork getting the admin info and transferring his stuff over and making it work here, then working on the new design. if down the road we want to look at generating income to run the site, selling advertising space will definitely be looked into. Not only does it generate income but with the right sponsors it helps make the place look official.
RichardS:
Fernando: Very nice work, simple and elegant. :)
T-Man
I agree with Fernando's thoughts on criteria for the deletion of offensive posts. Frankly with the exception of the one time, I don't remember it ever being a problem.
RichardS.
JJ: Congrats on the new player. Why don't you post a review?
RichardS.
Good Morning everyone.
I think, if possible, that we should set up an admin/suggestion forum. This could be used for testin "SML", discussing administartive issues, and making suggestions for the site.
mcb
Sounds like and looks like the HTOC foundation has imperfections. What foundation doesn't? Our house foundation was built in 1795. It is made out of stacked rocks. Lots of peep holes, good air flow, yet it's still standing. The gravel basement eliminates all water concerns as it simply perks up and down as the rains and the winter snow melt come and go. Amazingly, our furnace, our laundry machines, our oil tank, and our water pump have NO rust: gotta love that air flow. Anything that cannot handle moisture is stored elsewhere. We adapt. It's far from perfect but it sure has some nice outcomes. The HTOC forum is trying to create a foundation that has no air flow, no holes, no water problems, and no irregularities. I have yet to see or hear of one that meets these stringent expectations and requirements: with every correction comes a new concern.
Fernando
Good morning gang. Glad to see the place still intact.
WB: Since we DO NOT want censorship i think the criteria for deleting offensive posts will have to be pretty stringent. We're all adults and can take the foul language and random idiot. I think the only stuff that should be deleted is pornography. Any other stuff starts to get too complicated for now. We'll worry about it later after we get more settled.
JJ
So? no comments on my new CD player; a Pioneer CLD-M301 ??
JJ
I think we've done fine without the need to delete posts. I say we visit that concept only if necessary.
JJ
I prefer this style to UBB
Chris. L
Morning all! Wild Bill: >>would be on my list of possible offensive post deleters also.<< Okay...who's going to determine what's offensive? If someone goes on the rampage and uses the "F" word a couple times, is that considered offensive? I think editing other's posts comes dangerously close to censorship. JMHO
JJ
well. Good Morning Sunshines! Would it make any sense to create a list of places we shop regularly? Create a banner page of those places to get some income? Does anyone know the economics of that stuff?
Ron H
I am just glad we still have a forum.
JohO
Regarding BlackIce and other protection software: This type of software usually gives out more "false positive" warnings than actual attack warnings. We have tried several of these, including multi-thousand dollar commercial grade units from big name companies. The "attacks" usually wind up being network management workstations like HP Openview attempting to map the network, perfectly ordinary communications between servers, administrators remotely administering their own server, etc. Not to say that there aren't hackers out there, but you have to sift through a lot of "noise" to find the actual problem. With all that in mind, I would still run something like BlackIce at home if I were on 24 hours a day through cable modem or DSL. Better safe than sorry.
T-Man
Good morning all. Taking the day off today. Should be an interesting one on the forum. BTW I watched The 13th Warrior this last weekend. I would agree with those that said there was some good sound effects, but the story was kind of lame. JMHO
Ron H
Good morning AVB Wild Bill: Thanks for the kind words. It makes for a great way to start my day.
Wild Bill
"El" would be on my list of possible offensive post deleters also.
Wild Bill
Fernando: No offense to Kieran but I'd rather have a cooler head on the delete button of my posts. Is there a way that RonH could be included among those with this responsibility? I've found him to be pretty even-keeled when it comes to controversy and think he'd make an excellent choice for offensive post striker. I'd also include the Gasgeek and Bagman in that list. I am not trying to complicate matters, just expressing my views.
AVB
Morning all.
BAGMAN
Ryan, Last week, I told you that I thought you were doing a great job,you were and you did. I respect and admire your computer skills but your life skills leave a little to be desired. Don't worry, you will gain and hone those skills as time goes by. I found your initial reason for not wanting to have a second admin. to sound and smell like bullshit. It was! The final reason given yesterday sounded like the grand illusion of youth, and that is forgivible. One last thing,and you will find this out, no one is indispensable, the forum will go on and prosper. Ok computer dudes,and you know who you are, let's get this thing going. BTW, I vote for the common sense approach to running this place. Most problems that pop up have a very logical solution,if you keep politics and ego out of the equation.
Rich
Ryan... why????...
Rich
The current list of nominees are excellent choices. Congrads & Thanx Guys!
Fernando
popcorn: BYork will soon have the reins I believe so he'll be able to send you a copy of the forum code.
Scott "popcorn"
Hey RGB... I've been under the weather the past couple of days... :)
Scott "popcorn"
Gee, a lot went on today! First of all: Re: Nominations. I accept nomination, but I would prefer to keep it programmer/designer. I don't feel I'm ready to take up administration duties as yet... The RSML code (namely, everything that you put inside the [] is all my code, and I have a copy of it. If whoever has a copy of the forum code we're using now will send me a copy, I'll see what I can do to include RSML (which might get a new name). Kieran: Yeah, it would be impossible to set up a user account for BYork... What would have to be done is have a "shared" account.
RGB
So no activity from Scott "p" here? I thought he'd have some say about his RSML development.
Fernando
Curtis: Cool. Once BYork gets the admin info and voting or whatever is done, we'll have this place cool again in no time ;)
rickmtb
irc?
Gasser: Sounds like a great b-day. Nobody should have to work on theirs. You're better off not knowing what happened here.
Curtis
Fernando: It certainly looks better than this desolate place! I vote go with it for now at least.
Gasgeek
Thanks everyone for the birthday wishes. I took the day off to hang out all day with a childhood friend. He bought me the Roy Orbison and Sheryl Crow DVDs. What the heck happened to the forum. Got to go BBQ. Talk to you all tomorrow.
Fernando
Thanks Gar. Damn I miss those time hacks already.....
Fernando
Feedback on the menubar possibly? This MAY be the future... ;)
http://members.home.net/robnjen13/HTOCNet.html
Gar
Fernando site looks good.
Gar
To All: the old website is up and running! Yikes, I see this place has gotten away from discussing Audio and HT and become what the web is most know for. A Venting tool ;) Oh damn that doesn't work anymore. Ryan sorry to say it sounds like Paranoia got the best of you.
Curtis
NeoSonic: No problem pal. Amazing how a scotch can cheer you up! The check ports option came up with a single open area - so I'm not stressing over it.
Fernando
I realize Kieran got a little hot under the collar and maybe went a little overboard but I don't think it would reflect on his position as a backup admin. I think he cares a lot about this site and wouldn't do anything to jeopardize it. Anyhow, i think the main responsibility of a backup admin will be to delete extremely offensive posts according to pre-determined criteria and, well, i don't know what else. Just be there to keep the other admins from going to far I guess.
So how will this voting determine if a person becomes admin or not anyway? Is it based on # of votes? Will a certain # of votes against disqualify you? I'm thinking, if no one objects to the current nominees and it doesn't change much, go with that. Anyone who's iffy, like Kieran I guess, will have to be voted on and confirmed by a 2/3 majority of all voters. Sound good?
NeoSonic
Curtis: No problem buddy. We should always look at things from all sides.
I haven't tried it yet, but wonder what the results would be when not running BlackICE.
Curtis
Sorry for all the negative stuff. My BS tolerance level is currently at about zero. I'll post again when I'm more chipper.
Curtis
Interesting site. We should all take reasonable measures to protect ourselves on the Net yet the current wave of paranoia is mostly being fed to us by the media and the people who happen to sell security products. The sources that I have learned to trust seem to agree that the current denial of access problems aimed at huge ecommerce sites are running off of far more sophisticated machines than our lowly home PC's - stuff like Sun & other very high powered Unix boxes that can spew out a lot more than even the latest/ greatest PC. Out of curiosity I went to the URL you pointed us to and got the following spooky message "Greetings Gateway! Without your knowledge or explicit permission, the Windows networking technology which connects your computer to the Internet may be offering some or all of your computer's data to the entire world at this very moment! (For example . . . that's how I know your name!)" Wow I'm pretty impressed they know my name is Gateway. There's a lot of snake oil and Brooklyn Bridges out there for sale, buyer beware.
NeoSonic
Oh yeah? =P
Fernando
Ha ha! serves me right......last post from me.....
http://members.home.net/robnjen13/HTOCNet.html
WB: Re the HTML stuff I'll try and stick to only line breaks as they can't screw up the forum. As for my name, it's in a file in Word and I just cut and paste that and so it's pretty error proof.
Fernando
Guys: Go here and see what you think. It's a first draft of a menu bar. It's fully functional. The main page below it is just temporary. The links are just going to pages on my site for now....
http://members.home.net/robnjen13/HTOCNet.html
NeoSonic
cai/anyone interested: Here's the URL: grc.com
When the main page opens, click on the Shields UP! button.
On the next page, select the Probe My Ports! button. It will give you results of each type of probe. It was interesting.
Also, try the Test My Shields! button.
Curtis
Ron H: I agree, though to his credit he did come back with an apology but the damage was already done by then. The word I couldn't get past was "immoral". Synonyms in my trusty Psion say the following synonyms apply: evil, wicked, bad, corrupt, crooked, deceitful, dishonest, fraudulent, mercenary, shady, shifty, singul, unprincipled, unscrupulous & vile. No wonder I thought it was a nasty thing to say. Lighten up boys - this is supposed to be about a HOBBY, know what I mean?
NeoSonic
Thanks cuz! Uh, Cyto and I aren't really related...well, we might be...okay that's a long story...
Ron H
As Kieran seemed to be the loudest, the most vocal and made personal attacts on Ryan I do not feel he should be allowed to be a administrator. At least not to start with.
Cytotech
I second NeoSonic as treasurer. He did a great job before. Also, BYork, Fernando, Scott "pop"(SML, anyone???)RGB and AVB all sound good to me. Forgive me if I have left anyone out. Never saw any of this coming. I am having a hard time remembering how all this crap even started, but please don't remind me. Ignorance is indeed bliss. :-)
NeoSonic
Basically, it was a site that checked your vulnerabilities. I'll look through my history and post it.
NeoSonic
cai: I went to a site the other night(I forget the URL) and basically with that software, my computer doesn't exist!!! I thought that was pretty cool.
Wild Bill
Some of us are over on IRC - Channel #home-theater. T-Man?
cai
TRAV: If your are talking about the $39.95 firewall that he used to detect snoopers, it is called BLACKICE; http://www.networkice.com/ . I just bought it and installed it yesterday. Already there has been one intruder, yesterday at 10 PM.
Kieran
I'm off to class... see ya (last was from me)
So far for seconded nominations we have: BYork admin/programmer/designer
Fernando admin/designer
Scott Pop admin/programmer/designer
AVB backup/"just in case" admin
Kieran backup/"just in case" admin
RGB admin/programmer
Did I miss anybody?
more nominations welcome...
Kieran
I second RGB's nomination of himself as an admin/programmer/etc.
RGB
Hey guys - being a programmer by trade, I'd be willing to accept some responsibility if need be. I'm no CGI expert, but I've wanted to learn! :-)
T-Man
Sigh.......I was wrapped up in getting a deliverable to a client today and just now checked in. Sad to see what occurred, but not really surprised. All kinds of valid points have been made. Perhaps we should chalk it up to growing pains, suck it up and move on. Tony C., I suspect you're right that someday Ryan will look back and cringe a bit, but hopefully he (and we) can grow from this. As a contibuting member without a bio, allow me to proxy my vote to the majority. I would be grateful to whoever is willing to spend the time to put some new plaster on this place. Personally, at a minimum, I think BYork and Fernando seem like an obvious place to start. All right, enough of all this, let's get it on!
NeoSonic
I vote myself as Treasurer.
Kieran
So far for seconded nominations we have: BYork admin/programmer/designer
Fernando admin/designer
Scott Pop admin/programmer/designer
AVB backup/"just in case" admin
Kieran backup/"just in case" admin
Did I miss anybody?
Anybody interested in being some sort of administrator, just say so... you don't have to wait and hope for somebody to nominate you. If you're interested in the duties and responsibilities involved, and you can handle them, the speak up!
Ron H
If AVB is up for nomination I second it.
Ron H
How will the nominations work? Where is the list or please repost the list for me.
Kieran
If anybody is interested, here is an explaination of what we bought. I hope Ryan hands over all literature and other pertanent information to us.
Ron H
I think it will be important that the people we decide upon as administrators have the ability to access from work so they can repair and/or react to a problem in a fairly prompt manner.
NeoSonic
Kieran: I've received 35 payments but there are 5 still inbound or other circumstances that I am already aware of. Oh not counting me and Ryan. DUH!!!
Make that 42 total.
RichardS.
BYork: Get the ball rolling, everyone here trusts you. We can work out who does what later.
RichardS.
Kieran
AVB: LOL! Neo: I thought as much, based on the prices... we had about 35 paying members, correct?
AVB
I accept the nomination but God help us if I ever have to do any HTML. This place could end up with yellow letters on a green background.
NeoSonic
I take that back. I'm sure of it. =P
NeoSonic
I believe it was U Fully Virtual
Kieran
Sonic: do you know WHICH type of account we bought from superb.net? From their web site, they have U Basic I
U Basic II
U Virtual
U Fully Virtual
U Fully Virtual Pro
U Fully Virtual Commerce
Unix & Linux Dedicated Servers
RaQ3 Dedicated Servers
Simm
Kieran: Oh, I must have missed that. As several of you have noted below I think we need to establish some ground rules up front as we begin to rebuild. 1. Whoever does the admin work must be aware that this belongs to everyone and if the work done in developing the forum leads into an area they feel may lead to financial rewards and they want to protect their intellectual property then don't use it- even if it keeps the forum from being "state of the art". 2. I don't think this would happen (but I didn't think this other would either) but I wouldn't want to see the censor of posts that may piss some people off- this does not include porno pics and the like. What other kind of upfront rules/expectations should we have?
NeoSonic
IRC anyone? I'm on DALNet channel #home-theater.
Wild Bill
That wasn't directed at you Alan. You just happened to be the one messing with HTML when I thought about it.
Wild Bill
Michael "AKA": Tempers flaring is not an accurate phrase. It was actually very quiet here this weekend. There were some strong positions taken but no viable options were given to the group as a whole. Don't base your opinion on what happened by the posts you see in our current forum. There is a lot more to it than what you see in this script.
NeoSonic
Okay...err, oops.
Wild Bill
Can we PLEASE put the HTML play on hold for a while until this thing is more, for lack of a better phrase, "idiot proof". I don't think putting colors on your moniker is worth it currently. JMHO
NeoSonic
how weird this is....
Kieran
Wild Bill
I think the names mentioned are fine also. Fernando: I don't thin anyone is worried over every color, line, font, etc... We just all want and deserve to have our say in the matters that "matter". I'd like to make it clear also to anyone that read my posts incorrectly. I DO NOT believe that a $5 contribution should include anyone into the "voting stock" as I believe Kieran put it. It is contribution to the forum that matters. Contribution can be defined in many ways. Sure, I sent my $6 in, and I would have sent $60 or whatever it took to get HTOC.net for the group. But there are other ways to contribute than money. I agtree with AVB that the members listed in the bios should be included in the decision. If you're someone who was a member (like Axis) who was taken off the list and you'd like to be included in the decision making process then you need to step up, e-mail BYork and get back on the list.
NeoSonic
one last test...
NeoSonic
Okay, not too bad...gotta remember the ole HTML codes...=P
NeoSonic
Jeez I hope I didn't screw that up! I would happy to pay collection man again for any future endeavours. A couple things... Who should take singular control of the Superb.Net account? We've paid for it. Also, who is going to be the new administrative contact for the domain?
Kieran
Simm... actually, BYork did post our address on the Star Wars dvd petition, I think.
NeoSonic
Trav: It was BlackICE Defender. The website is www.networkice.com.
JohnO
I more than second the motion, if Bypork is willing, grab the account info.
Simm
I like the names posted for admin. Lets get it up and running. Good thing we didn't go ahead and advertise ourselves a couple of weeks ago when were talking about it, huh :).
Derb
Ahhh, yes just like the good old days, plain jayne posts on a white back ground. Never could do all that fancy crap :) The folks that have been listed for admin. sound great to me. If BYork wants to take over for a while that's cool. Send me something to vote on and I will pull the handle.
Kieran
BYork: Yes, go ahead and get the site info from Ryan. We need to do that ASAP. I already emailed him a couple hours ago... no response yet.
Curtis
Look at the bright side guys & lurking girls ... I bet this is loading a whole lot faster than before!
Curtis
Axis: Don't even begin to imply that pacbell has screwed up my email yet again. I sent it here: sperry1@san.rr.com
Axis
Curtis: is the mail away? usually i get it right away...is this yer slow mail server again? What address didja use?
trav
Triple DOH!
Trav:
trav
Neo: What was the name of that software firewall you just bought? Website?
trav
Neo: What was the name of that software firewall you just bought? Website?
Curtis
Axis: Emailed you my plans.
Fernando
I'm gonna be looking into cgi creation programs and doing some designing for awhile... catch you guys later.
And lets all be careful with our HTML. We're probably back to a corruptible forum...
Fernando
BYork: Yeah. Just get the password and take over. Let's get that part out of the way....
Fernando
AKA: I can't do cgi work yet but anyone who can, please make yourself known.
RGB
BYork: If you're comfortable with getting the ball rolling on this, perhaps you could e-mail Ryan and get the password and whatever else from him. I think everyone's with me on this and having you as our fist admin guy. :-)
Fernando
The new 'rules for running this site' should stipulate that common sense consideration will be the norm. If more than 1 person has a problem with something, it should be voted on quickly and resolved, prefereably on a separate 'voting forum' or something...;)
Axis
Curtis: When you comin' down my way Amigo? still waiting for Planes to get fixed?
Fernando
Also gang, I think this is important: once it's decided who does what, they need to be given free rein for a while. I'm all for BYork's group consensus, but for instance, if I were designing stuff for this place I couldn't be expected to put every color, logo, line of text up to a vote. We'd have to let people do their thing first, then if stuff is a problem for some, go from there.
Michael AKA "the Home Theater/Home Building Animal"
Gasgeek: Happy Birthday! What a great day to have a birthday :-) Looks like you got your speakers just in time for your birthday.
Michael AKA "the Home Theater/Home Building Animal"
Curtis: Sounds like tempers flaired this weekend.
Curtis
Michael AKA: If all you saw was from today, be thankful you didn't see the rest.
Michael AKA "the Home Theater/Home Building Animal"
Everyone keep in mind that whoever takes on the development of the new forum script will probably be devoting a lot of time towards it. Maybe it would be best for several people to get invloved with the development of the new forum script. This will have the advantage of shared knowledge just in case someone decides to leave for whatever reason.
Fernando
I think BYork is a given and we should probably cut through some red tape and just have Ryan send him the admin password and info.
Fernando
You know, Ryan scrammed with our archives. This place is gonna grow and grow til we get it fixed.
Michael AKA "the Home Theater/Home Building Animal"
Good evening all! WOW! Leave for a few days and the forum goes to hell. I just caught up on what transpired. I think it is time to move on and reconstruct what has been lost. At least we have a skeleton script to start from. I guess this means we have lost the archives yet again. My feeling is to create a list of volunteer administrators and then vote. This time we all agree that the developed forum software is NOT the property of any individual. The agreement can be in the forum of an official e-mail sent to one party and stored for later use. If we are going to do this let's do it officially so that there is no misunderstanding. I think the first order of business is for BYork to move is stuff over here. No need for him to continue the financial bruden by himself.
Fernando
Curtis and RickMTB: agreed. it's sad he decided he had to take off.
Axis
All: I guess as they say In Ally Macbeal "BYGONES??" "BYGONES??" move on and get this place cleaned up for gawds sake! let me know what I can do to upgrade my mebership from "Lurker" to "Poster"....Money? where do I send it?
BYork
I'm nursing a sick 6 year-old guys, so gotta go. I'll check back later tonight to see where we're taking this, and to see if I need to post stuff on my site to accomodate any voting.
Later..........
BYork
My $.02...is there a limit to the number of people we want as admins? I ask because I think Kieran identified are a minimum list I would vote on. If we have several people who can do so, we should be able to use a much simpler cgi for the forum, and just have an admin manually "spay" any errant posts.
Also, if we stipulate that any changes/additions should be done only with the consensus of the group, I do not believe multiple admins should contend with each other.
Fernando
I second Kieran, Scott and AVB.
Axis
Hell yea! I gotta know where all my money goes when I check the accounts and nothing is there. it's like keeping records. I need to add an MK MX-5000 Mark II Sub also. Sorry I missed the remiders. I was in the Persian Gulf in early december...I guess I missed it. sorry bout that.
Curtis
$6?! Oh man, the way you guys were going on I thought we were all stepping up to the table to buy a condo-sized investment together. I'll gladly pay double right now to be crowned real. Axis: Yes you're a character all right, so I'll vouch for you ;-) I know you're always lurking and post only when you have something to say (unlike me). Many of your thoughts are like a breath of fresh air at this point and are well taken. Most of you know that I consider Ryan a pal because we met in person a few years ago (same goes for Axis & Duane plus a very short intro to Brian). Yes he's young and lacks experience but who didn't at his age? I suspect he's a fairly sensative guy that we have seen the last of. As Ross Perot would say, that's just sad. Life's too short to burn bridges and friends who really share interests too hard to find. As I said before I do think I understand all sides of this particular argument and respect everyone's POV. Let's learn from this so it doesn't get ugly around here going forward. I have real life all around me if I want to see that!
RickMTB
Fernando and AVB (and anyone else uncomfortable with my comments)... I think I was pretty clear in saying I completely understood the reasons behind the group's request of Ryan and that I thought they were reasonable. I think I also was pretty clear in saying I think everyone involved are decent peopla and had the best of intentions). Ironically, the fact I had to point both of these points out shows how imperfect email (and e-bulletin board) communication is, and how easy it is to allow things to be misunderstood. I support any action this group takes... like Curtis, I missed the opportunity to contribute. Should there be a benefit in collecting new "dues" (to support ongoing development) I would be happy to contribute. In the interim I would support any decision by the group on who, how, where, etc.
Fernando
Look, let's keep things SIMPLE right now while it needs to be. Anybody who wants to vote can vote. They're here, they can vote. We need to try to minimize bureaucracy for awhile.
BYork
Axis - We decided in early Dec. to clear out all bios of peole who didn't say they wanted to remain. I sent out multiple messages, and posted multiple reminders in the forum. ...your bio is still there, just not linked. Do you want me to re-link it?
Kieran
BYork: go ahead and set up an "admin election" page, if you can. We can send out an email to the group once the "who can vote" thing is settled. To get things started...
I second Fernando's nomination of himself as an admin/designer. I second Fernando's nomination of BYork as an admin/programmer/designer. I'd like to nominate Scott "Popcorn" as an admin/programmer/designer. I'd like to nominate AVB as a backup/"just in case" admin. I'd like to nominate myself as a backup/"just in case" admin.
Fernando
Axis: I think it's the community aspect of this place that made this last problem such a, well, problem. We all CARE about this place and are affected when stuff like that happens. Sorry, but this stuff has to be dealt with sometimes.
Axis
Hey! did the bio's get flushed recently? I used to have one up there, but it's gone....did I miss something?
Kieran
Wild Bill, well, since only registered members would receive emails to the group anyway, that's kind of what I had in mind. But, to put it in writing, what does everybody think of this: If you care enough to register a bio at the HTOC HQ, then you can vote/have a say/whatever... if you just lurk for the most part, and havne't registered with BYork, then you're welcome to post and speak your mind, but in any "official" elections/decisions you won't be able to participate.
Is this a good idea everybody?
AVB
JMHO, Everybody that has a bio (shows an active membership) should have a vote. The dollars were voluntary to buy the name HTOC.net, not how to run the forum.
Kieran
To clarify: Use the "POST" button with an EMPTY message field, to refresh the forum. Don't click the "reload" or "refresh" button on your browser (like BYork said... I just wanted to add the "empty message field" part.)
Axis
Sorry for the double posts guys...kinda re-learning the setup...
Wild Bill
Kieran: I'm not sure. But there is a core group on this forum that has been together for a long time. Maybe we should start with the members listed on BYork's site and take it from there.
BYork
Guys - IF you got used to hitting the reload button on your browser...don't do it NOW. It will re-post your last message. Use the POST button.
Wild Bill
Axis: Well said, but you're going to have to put up with some BS posts for a while. There are chores to be done now.
Axis
Hey there everybody...I saw (read) what went down, and ..*WOW*!! I come around here ALOT and may not have much to say, but man o man. It's here or the Hometheaterforum..but for my history, I ALWAYS start here. am I wrong? Curtis I think would vouch for me, I really care what people say here, and have TONS of respect for My Lexicon Friends (especially Mr. TonyC and his DC2..) and well...Curtis and his old Defs. What the hell is going on here? I got out of this kinda crap after Jr High School...I mean what's all this mud slinging-bridge burning action all about anyway? I guess I just don't know what this stuff has to do with me getting a CRT or DLP or D-ILA projector anyway. Shit. it's about HOMETHEATER folks. Not about CGI copyrights, or "how to make money in Perl without really trying..."...fer gawds sake. I read ALL your guyzez posts everyday, and it bums me out to see this turn of events occur. I guess this was the first place I ever went when I was bitten by the hometheater bug back when it was at the mag site, and that's where I got this sense of a real community where the folks really cared about each other and what thier input was and what they have to say....then this kiddie BS rears it's ugly head. Man o man. I might not say as much as someone else, but that doesn't mean I don't care about what happens here. This latest issue makes me wonder if this is a view that is perhaps misplaced? Do I reset my browser homepage to the Hometheaterforum.com? or will things work out. Help me out here Curtis. I know it's a major Cliche', but "Cant Everyone Just Get Along?". Remember all. This is a forum that we all share at least One thing. A love for HT. I guess I don't get all the other stuff. oh yea...I have the ATI 1505. If anyone want's to know about it...let me know. <- HT post
Kieran
WB: But where would one draw the line?
Wild Bill
Kieran: My subsequent post did not make it through. What I additionally said was that long time members (like Curtis) who have contributed should not be excluded from the decision making process.
Axis
Hey there everybody...I saw (read) what went down, and ..*WOW*!! I come around here ALOT and may not have much to say, but man o man. It's here or the Hometheaterforum..but for my history, I ALWAYS start here. am I wrong? Curtis I think would vouch for me, I really care what people say here, and have TONS of respect for My Lexicon Friends (especially Mr. TonyC and his DC2..) and well...Curtis and his old Defs. What the hell is going on here? I got out of this kinda crap after Jr High School...I mean what's all this mud slinging-bridge burning action all about anyway? I guess I just don't know what this stuff has to do with me getting a CRT or DLP or D-ILA projector anyway. Shit. it's about HOMETHEATER folks. Not about CGI copyrights, or "how to make money in Perl without really trying..."...fer gawds sake. I read ALL your guyzez posts everyday, and it bums me out to see this turn of events occur. I guess this was the first place I ever went when I was bitten by the hometheater bug back when it was at the mag site, and that's where I got this sense of a real community where the folks really cared about each other and what thier input was and what they have to say....then this kiddie BS rears it's ugly head. Man o man. I might not say as much as someone else, but that doesn't mean I don't care about what happens here. This latest issue makes me wonder if this is a view that is perhaps misplaced? Do I reset my browser homepage to the Hometheaterforum.com? or will things work out. Help me out here Curtis. I know it's a major Cliche', but "Cant Everyone Just Get Along?". Remember all. This is a forum that we all share at least One thing. A love for HT. I guess I don't get all the other stuff. oh yea...I have the ATI 1505. If anyone want's to know about it...let me know. <- HT post
BYork
Just a thought...if others like Curtis want to contirbute, we could use the $$$ to possibly BUY commercial strength forum software to use on www.htoc.net
...or something else useful. It seems to me NeoSonic did a great job managing the first round, and probably (notice how I'm volunteering him... ;-P ) would do it again
Chris. L
Well holy shit! Somebody cleaned house while I was away today. Looks great! Thanks Ryan.
Fernando
I agree with you Kieran regarding the paying/non-paying dichotomy. There shouldn't be one. We're all equal and it was totally voluntary.
I think those who want to play a significant part in the actual operations of the HTOC should be nominated or nominate themselves. Voting can be on those nominees. I definitely want to be involved and would like to be considered for a web designing role. I am planning on leaving my health care position and moving into web development by the end of the year so this would be cool to be involved directly with. All I know is some html but will be finished with my HTML 4 book soon. I also nominate BYork. I really enjoy designing but BYork is the programmer.
I'm also going to type up a list of guidelines for this place to try to help clarify issues like this in the future.
Kieran
Wild Bill: Well, there you go... Curtis would like to have a vote, has been around since the begining, but was unable to pay due to absence. Should we not count his vote? There's not really any point in him sending $6.00 out now, is there? This is my reasoning...
Kieran
Curtis, don't worry about it for now. The fee has been paid, and any money you would send would not have a purpose right now.... Unless you wanted to send $0.20 to all 30 or so of those who did pay, which would have been about your impact on the total fee, I think. Next year, when we have to renew our site fee, you can pay double... ;-) LOL!
Wild Bill
Kieran: If the "volunteers" hadn't made the contribution we would not have HTOC.net as our site. Someone has to own the site and I'd prefer it be those that contributed rather than one person. I'm not saying priliges were purchased or that any rights are implied. Just the fact that some of us stepped up to the table when the request was made. You may want a lurker who has never posted or contributed to have a vote but I do not. Nothing against them and no offense intended.
Curtis
Ok I'll fess up. Exactly when did this payment option come up and how much do I owe to whom. This must have happened in one of my patented protracted absences.
Geo.
Keep in mind that what became an issue between Ryan and others was not spelled out at the beginning. Ryan saw it one way and others saw it another. Ultimatums were presented to Ryan and he accepted one which was presented. Neither side is totally right and neither is totally wrong. Reasonable minds on both sides couldn't agree. That's all that happened. No good guys; no bad guys. JMHO
BYork
Kieran - I agree that "membership" shouldn't mean you have to pay.
I also think your suggestion that we settle issues like that one is probably overdue, so that we all have no major misconceptions about how things work from now on...
Kieran
that last sentance should read,
"I don't really care too much either way, but I know there are a couple of members who's input and presence I value greatly, but for one reason or another they couldn't, or chose not to, pay part of the fee. I don't think their votes and/or oppinions should be left not counted.
Fernando
Hopefully my last post about Ryan....
RickMTB: Like AVB said, there was a problem with access to webspace that needed to be a public discussion about what we thought was right. It ended up being simple - Ryan didn't want anyone to have access to his work. We tried to reason with him and he wouldn't budge. Problem is he had no right to demand that sort of privelege, to do something he felt was so private, on webspace we all just paid for. This is a group thing and should be for fun. He could have just trusted us and kept right on with his work and everyone would have been happy. We'd have helped him keep improving it, no one would have stolen his work and things would have been great. It was the fact he made his cgi so 'private' on the group webspace that turned into a problem. The 'rough' attacks were only by a couple/few people. He could have easily defended himself. Guys, we ARE going to have to do a lot of posting on this issue to get things rolling again so just bear with it.
BYork
Kieran
Along the same lines as my last post... I think we as a group should clarify some things as we proceed down the path of making this a great community site. When the idea of collecting money for the domain and site fees was brought up, it was to be on a purely volunteer basis. I don't remember if any "rights" or "privilages" were stated or implied to go along with that voluntary fee. In other words, I don't think by volunteering to pay a share of the fee, you were "buying" a vote or a say in what goes on around here. But that's just my honest oppinion. Some may feel differently. I think that we should remain a "freeware" community, as it were... you can pay if you want, but you don't have to, and you aren't any less of a community member for not paying. Is this too idealistic? I don't really care too much either way, but I know there are a couple of members who's input and presence I value greatly, and I don't think their votes and/or oppinions should be left not counted.
Wild Bill
It was NeoSonic. He was the collector.
BYork
RickMTB -
I second Tony C's comment. You've been here since we had to migrate from the HomeTheaterWeb site...one of the OLDTimers!
BYork
Wasn't Ron H the person who collated the money? Ron H: DO you have a list of who paid?
BYork
....if you think it's necesary, I can also post the results like I did for the "12 days" contest, and our "DVD favorites" page.
AVB
Keiran: It is the server for my house. I don't and can't keep a dial up connection open all of the time. I used it to study problems and test things. Right now I have Novell 4.11, 5.0, NT 4.0 and I'm going to put Windows 2000 in it soon. Just boot up what ever I need to check out.
BYork
Kieran - I already have a distribution list that you may recall I've used to send out broadcasts on seeral past occasions. Why don't you compose the note, and I'll forward it on.
Wild BIll
Kieran: First we need to find out who is qualified. Then we need to know who is willing and/or wasnts to do the job. Then we can decide how to do it. My preference would be for the owners of the site to make the choice. That would be those of us who made monetary contributions.
Kieran
AVB: I don't follow... you have 27 gigs on a server that's not online?
RGB
RickMTB: Unfortunately, Ryan was not flexible in the matter of a 2nd administrator - there wasn't going to be one. It was either his way or the highway. His immaturity and paranoia accounts for the way we are right now.
AVB
I can store copies of whatever on my server. I have 27gigs to play with so space isn't a problem. I just can't keep it online.
Kieran
Time to get moving along, here... If we are to "elect" two or more administrators, does anybody care who gets to vote? Personally, I think anybody who posts, or even just lurks, can vote. But, maybe the rest of you think that only those that paid for the domain and site fees should vote? I was going to send out an email to all members registered on BYork's site, calling for an election of sorts, but I wanted to check here, first. Email me or post oppinions and feedback on this issue. Before we start voting, I'd like to have it somewhat organized. If you want to nominate somebody for election, go ahead. Keep in mind, we can have more than two adminstrators if we so choose, and they don't HAVE to be web-gurus, per-se. They do have to be trustworthy, though. I'm thinking one or two people could serve as the web-masters, and a third and possibly fourth (or more), could simply serve as "in-the-wings" admins. Holding on to critical site info for safekeeping only, etc. Just some thoughts.... let me know what you think.
AVB
RickMTB: It was a public decision by the members. It should not have been done behind closed doors.
BYork
RickMTB
Tony C, thanks for the kindness... I guess I have been on and off infrequently for a couple of years now. And I know that all of the main characters in this "drama" are all decent people and all meant well. And as I said, I don't doubt that people did try and reason with Ryan privately. Unfortunately, the discussion was also carried out over the public forum, and putting myself in Ryan's place (especially when I consider his age and his feeling of personal investment), I can see how as hard as the group pushed he dug in even deeper. To be honest, I kinda like the current "sparse" look, especially since I never knew how to do all the colors, font changes (though I could do "winkies").
Tony C
JT: I don't hear them mentioned here, but I think that Adcom amps have great bang-for-your-buck. However, if you can get a great deal on an amp, you should consider it. New amps may be in my future as well. If I have the room, I may even consider bi-amping.
... active tweeters
Curtis
JT: Nice speakers, stick with them and find the best amp to mate. Wait that sounded wrong - what do you get when a massive amp and nice speakers mate? Tweeters? ;-)
Tony C
RickMTB: How long have you been around? You are not "outside" this group. In a way, I agree with you. I felt that Ryan was pushed, but like my earlier post mentioned, I think his lack of wisdom came from lack of experience/years. Not his fault. But Rick, you and anyone else who has been around for some time is a part of this group. No matter how frequently one posts. It's sad to loose anyone, even Ryan, this way.
JT
Curtis, I fairly recently upgraded my speakers to PSB Silver mains, a C6 center and in-wall surrounds. Hopefully I will be happy with them for awhile. If I shop for new ones sometime down the road I will consider your alternative.
RickMTB
Just an observation from someone that is a bit outside the group. Seems to me that people didn't recognize the social dymnamics at work here. Regardless of how sound the reasons behind wanting a second admin (and I believe they were very sound), the group failed at presenting the request in such a way that was acceptable to Ryan. I suspect people attempted to contact him privately (by email, or better yet, by phone) and discuss the request and reasons behind the request. Instead, from my periodic visits here there was a lot of debate and discussion in stark glare of the group. From my view it looked like you painted him (or gave Ryan the brush and watched him paint himself) in a corner without any way for him to get himself out gracefully. Again, its very possible he wouldn't agree to a reasonable request, and had ulterior motive behind not wanting to agree to the group's reasonable request, but unfortunately the group now won't ever be able to find out now. I am sure the Forum will be back up and running soon, but it just seems a shame that someone that was so liked and respected had to leave the group in this fashion.
Curtis
JT: If you happen to be in the market for new speakers then don't forget the option of running the pre/pro direct to active speakers. I sound like a broken record but I'm very happy with my choice & saved money/ rack space at the same time.
Wild Bill
David, I can't agree. He posted very infrequently. He was only an active poster when he was first considering gear. Then he drove us nuts with the constant "why?" questions. The way he has left us has left a very sour taste in my mouth.
RGB
JT: Yes, I listened to the ATI 1505. I thought the ATI was slightly brighter, but depending on your equipment that might be a good thing. The Outlaw amp puts out 15 more watts per channel, but that would only be a headroom consideration IMHO. For the money, I think the Outlaw amp's a terrific buy.
JT
RGB: Have you compared it to the ATI amps? They seem pretty similar. I'm pretty sure I can get an ATI at about 10% over dealer cost. I'm just trying to decide if it would be worth the extra money.
Kieran
AVB: I'd love to go on irc, but can't from work.
David
You know, despite all this hooey, I still like Ryan. He is a great poster, and was always active in the forum. I think we should extend a formal invitation to him to rejoin our group as a posting member (once we get a good format going again.) Just my $.02
Kieran
That's the FIRST thing we should fix!
Kieran
Fernando
Screw this crap....Back to HT!
RGB
Curtis: I'm never giving up my colors! ;-)
Wild Bill
Ryan, Your maturity showed at the end. I wish you well but you will not prosper in the business world if you cannot learn how to deal effectively with people. You really need a dose of reality. At the very least you should give RSML back to the group. After all, it is "Ryan and SCOTT'S Markup Language". What is this, "it's my ball and I don't want to play anymore." Puuuuhhhhleeeze!!
Tony C
I had no idea Ryan was so young. This could be an embarrasing memory for him a few years from now. It doesn't matter. What matters is that we have a home. The thing is, if we want to attract new people, we can't go on like nomads. I have complete confidence that this group contains talented people who can rebuild the site into a presentable forum.
Fernando
Well Ryan, I just gotta say this: It's sad that you couldn't rise above the vitriol being hurled by a few to do the right thing for the group. Most all of us were just looking for a way to keep everyone happy. You created a cgi for the group that you eventually thought was too valuable to allow access to which was your own problem. Not ours. We paid for the site cuz this whole thing was supposed to be for all of us and for fun. You decided your stuff was too important to be just for fun and so it consequently caused this problem. Regardless of how tight-lipped and polite you're being what you're doing is immature and wrong. You've decreased the value of what we tried to create together because of your own selfishness. On no notice you leave us with this skeleton. BS. It's rude, unprofessional and unbecoming of someone in this group. If you had any sense of fairness and consideration you'd leave the HTOC forum as it was. You can copy what you've built and grow it into even more elsewhere but instead you choose to be the little boy and take your ball and go home (as a wise man said). Whatever Ryan. What you just did is wrong.
AVB
I guess we could ask Scott for a copy of RMSL....not like it's copywrited or anything.
Curtis
RGB At least you retained your colors ;-)
RGB
JT: I've got the Sony preamp and Outlaw 750 amp - highly recommended!
RGB
JT: That's right, sorry about that.
David
THE PERFECT GIFTS I brought her candy, I brought her sweets, I gave her a basket of sumptuous treats. I gave her hearts that said "Be Mine" And to go with her treats, a fine red wine. But instead of swooning, she said, "I think That I asked you for a brand new mink." I gave her a box that whimpered and cried She opened it to find a puppy inside With fuzzy brown fur, a red bow on his head He started licking her nose, and you know what she said? "Well this is just great, now I'll have more to clean, And just where is the box with my new pearl earrings?" I took her to dinner, a five star affair With flowers on the table, soft music in the air. I'd phoned ahead, the piano man knew all our tunes After dinner, a carriage ride under the moon. Then we strolled through the park and she let out a scream, "I've put up with enough, now where is my ring!" I had given her all the wrong presents that night So I knew what to do to set everything right. I collected the flowers, the puppy, the wine The treats in the basket, the hearts saying "Be Mine". I exchanged them for what I should have bought, you see A new lazy boy chair and a big screen TV.
JT
Also, I'm still looking for recommendations for a new amp. I currently use the Sony 9000 combo. I will continue to use the Sony preamp, but I have been bit by the upgrade bug on the amp. I am considering everything from the Outlaw to the ATI 2505. Any other ideas in or close to that price range would be great.
AVB
I'm on IRC #home-theater if any body wants to join me.
Joe
well shit I am glad we took such a huge step backwards. Ryan where I am glad you out effort into this scrip or forum. You are going to find that you will get screwed in the bussiness world no matter what you do. You are still young and might think you can go though life and protect you creations and work from everyone....not going to happen. If you think you have some top secreat stuff here...remember how many times WE ( the people you just screwed ) answered your questions on wireand recievers and dvd playeres and lets not forget the months of " how should I hook up my speaker wire" questions. No problem I didn't mind and I am sure no one else did. Now you are worried about the type of person that would screw over a friend and steal his enjoyment...ever see that typpe of person...... leave the monitor and go look in the mirror
RichardS:
Wonderful! :(
JT
Guys, JP was the one with a copy of the old forum script, not me. Sorry!
Curtis
Oh boy
Curtis
RGB
RyanP: Glad you think this was all just for fun.
AVB
Time to move on folks. You find the problem, you fix it and carry on as best you can. Our group will only get better because of this. Think of it as growing pains.
Joe
Anyone home?
RGB
RyanP: Glad you think this was all just for fun.
Darian
Ohh for FUCK'S sake. HomeTheater everyone... HomeTheater.
Kieran
RGB: yep.
b, f "Fatboy Slim BLTC (BRK)", s 6, c red ; David
test
RGB
RyanP: Glad you think this was all just for fun.
RGB
I knew we should have kept the free site - we just basically paid for Ryan's learning experience.
Fernando
Test
RyanP
It has been fun being your admin. Whoever will be taking over send me and email at formerAdmin@htoc.net with your Name, Address, and Phone Number and I will transfer the accounts. Good luck to everyone in the future. Ryan
RGB
Well folks, it looks like Ryan took RSML as well - even though Scott "p" developed most of it.
Ron H
I am out of here. I need to stop on the way home for a gift or I will be dead meat.
RFZ
BYork: Can you contact JT and see if his old CGI script is available?
David
wonderful.
Ron H
Skeleton is a pretty good discription. LOL
RFZ
Standard HTML test.
[s +3, e RonsHT@aol.com; [c red; R][c green; G][c blue; B]]
Test if the RSML still here.
Ron H
I guess this is how it wil be for awhile. This change explains why I could not get on the sie earlier.
RGB
Well, it looks like Ryan's immaturity has come to this point.
RyanP at 209.162.47.4 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 1:08:12 PM (PST)
Ron H: I will leave a skeleton.
AVB at 208.157.96.97 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 1:07:14 PM (PST)
I have to ask. RYAN, where will you put your stuff when we get a different admin? We won't allow it on the space used for the forum or do you plan on keeping that too?
Ron H at 63.20.12.157 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 1:04:57 PM (PST)
Wild Bill/All: If I am understanding Ryan correctly when he leaves, the forum we currently use will be gone as well. It seems we need to design a new forum if JT does not have the old CGI. We need to find a solution to that problem before anything else.
RyanP at 209.162.47.4 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 12:59:07 PM (PST)
Wild Bill: I agree. As soon as BYork indicates that he will indeed be taking this over I will gets the accounts transferred.
Wild Bill at 63.20.255.147 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 12:48:39 PM (PST)
RyanP: Disclaimer: This is NOT a personal attack! Sorry, but that is another bullshit excuse. You are NOT doing this for a living currently, you did NOT ask for or indicate that you would want compensation and you did NOT pay for this site! The group as a whole did. Now you are telling us that you think you MAY have reinvented the wheel on our dime (and the way I see it Scott "Popcorn" had a hand in it also) and now you've decided that even though we paid for the site so you could test and tweak your code that you only have an obligation to yourself and none to us. You made NO indication to us up front about any of the issues your are now raising. You told me last week that there was no ulterior motive and no attempt at personal gain and now you have used that very reason as your excuse to us. I can't and won't accept that.
I vote emphatically for two Webmasters and the sooner the change occurs the better IMHO.
PyriteEars at 161.44.233.126 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 12:46:50 PM (PST)
How about a HT question for a change? Here's one: Over the weekend, I plugged my new Niles power conditioner into my old TrippLite, just to see what input voltage the Niles would be seeing from the TrippLite under different loads. At idle, was ~119/120. When I cranked my amps up, it jumped up to 126/127 and stayed there until I powered down the amps. This surprised me, I thought the TrippLite would do better. Could it be that the TrippLite is worn or just not accurate? Anyone have any ideas?
RGB at 216.168.69.149 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 12:42:59 PM (PST)
JT: Do you still have your old HT forum CGI?
Tony C at 208.209.205.66 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 12:41:25 PM (PST)
I ordered my copy of "We've" got the whole world listening. $20.00 out the door. They're on backorder. What a surprise.
RyanP at 209.162.47.4 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 12:40:20 PM (PST)
RGB: Correct, I do not know anything about obtaining a copywrite and I do not have the power to scour the web to make sure that no one else is using it illegally. Also your assumption is correct but as Kieran has indicated there are many templates that can be found on the web.
RGB at 216.168.69.149 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 12:33:44 PM (PST)
RyanP: And if you did step down, then are we to also assume you'd take your CGI script with you and leave us to create another one?
RGB at 216.168.69.149 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 12:30:59 PM (PST)
RyanP: So basically, you don't want anyone else to access your CGI script in the case that someone might copy it? Why not put a copywrite on it, and then you'd have legal recourse if someone did.
RyanP at 209.162.47.4 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 12:25:58 PM (PST)
Tony C: My belief about how other websites are run is similar to the anonymous FTP scenario described below. I believe that, for example at DVDFile, all the people that write articles and reviews etc. upload their text or files to an anonymous FTP and then Peter Bracke who is the administrator of DVDFile takes those files and incorporates them into the website.
RyanP at 209.162.47.4 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 12:22:34 PM (PST)
Kieran: Regarding the anonymous FTP thing, BYork would still be able to make changes to the HTOC HQ, he would simply upload the changed files and then I would move them into place where they can be accessed on the internet. I know that doesn't help the goal of two administrators at all but I just wanted to make sure that was clear.
RyanP at 209.162.47.4 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 12:11:16 PM (PST)
I have thought long and hard on this issue and I think I have come to somewhat of an understanding as to why I have taken the actions that I have. This field of work is along the lines of what I will be doing when I get out of school, to make a living. In the past I have done many MIS consulting jobs and when the job was done I had no problem turning all the code over because I was compensated. I feel that giving another person access to the scripts that run this place would be like doing work for a client and receiving no compensation for the hard work that we all do to survive. I have worked too long and hard for this to be a donation and this script is being developed in a direction that it could become very valuable to the internet community (with many more additions surely) just as the UBB has become valuable ... and successful. The creators of the UBB charge hundreds of dollars to licence their software and the UBB is widely used across the internet. Although BYork and I have a vested personal interest we do not have a vested business interest. Do I think that anyone on here would "steal" from me? No. But will I take measures to make sure that no one does just as a business would? Yes. It is clear that the members of the HTOC disagree with the way that I wish to run this project and this is fine. People have their differences and sometimes to solve them they must split up. This happens all the time everyday and we must accept it. Whatever the outcome may be I'm sure that we will both get over this, life goes on.
Tony C at 208.209.205.66 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 12:10:44 PM (PST)
I would like to ask this question. How are other forums run? What are the differences?
Kieran at 12.13.238.141 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 12:04:14 PM (PST)
Scott: I suspected that, but wasn't sure.
I think Ryan stated before that it's not possible to set up a user account for BYork, or anyone else. I guess since the web site that is under the htoc.net domain is really just a file in one user account, in order to have access to files that are a part of the htoc.net web site, you'd have to have access to THAT user account, namely Ryan's current account.
Yes, BYork could have anonymous ftp access to the site, but he would not be able to change any of his files, he'd have to upload them, and leave it up to Ryan to make the changes. Giving BYork an ftp password (i.e. NOT anonymous ftp) would be the same as giving him the password to Ryan's account.
David at 199.174.133.224 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 12:02:04 PM (PST)
Guess my sub is kicking too hard... I am having to have some of the brick foundation on my house replaced today... $650. (ouch). That's about 45 DVD's worth of cash!!
Scott "popcorn" at 38.193.53.86 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 11:55:36 AM (PST)
Kieran: Ahh... but Ryan isn't the "administrator". Ryan is on a "User Account". There is an administrator that has full access to everything at htoc.net, and it's not Ryan.
Fernando at 158.93.201.201 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 11:52:34 AM (PST)
Ryan: So it's ok if you have access to BYork's info but not ok for him to have access to yours. Understood. You know, if you had paid for this thing all by yourself it wouldn't be an issue. But you evidently thought that we were all paying for you to run this place by yourself however you saw fit. Understandeable I guess.
Important Question:If you leave, will you leave 'the' or 'a' forum in place?
Scott "popcorn" at 38.193.53.86 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 11:52:32 AM (PST)
Ryan: I think you're being unreasonable here. There are a number of people that have access to your files as it stands now. I don't see what your problem is. It's quite a poor attitude to think that a second competent webmaster would mess up your script. I'm sure BYork would leave it alone, and I'm also sure BYork wouldn't "mistakenly" erase it either. I just can't understand your reasons for not sharing the account. BYork being able to log into the website (ftp) with the password doesn't give him access to your personal information... And if you were working for a company to write a script, you couldn't "hide" your script from others... So, why are you acting this way?
Kieran at 12.13.238.139 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 11:46:00 AM (PST)
JJ: the administrator has access to all user accounts, but users do not have access to any account but their own. The problem is that most people here (to my knowledge) agree that we don't want only ONE person to have administrative privilages. So, giving BYork just a user account left Ryan still with overall access, and free rein to change anything on the entire site, including BYork's stuff (not that Ryan would do that, but he could). Also, if Ryan were to go on vacation, have his computer stolen, get sick, or worse, no one would have the ability to maintain the site for which we all paid.
JJ at 12.29.224.130 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 11:35:04 AM (PST)
So what does it mean 'User Account'?
I guess I'm not understanding why there can't be a directory set aside for BYork to put (and change) all the community stuff. and he can't get to the root (where Ryan's script resides?, or another directory for the script to reside that only Ryan can get to?)
Or something !?!?!
We need to get over these growing pains, and fast.
Kieran at 12.13.238.139 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 11:32:47 AM (PST)
Fernando/Curtis: I'm not being emotional... sorry if it sounded that way. I just know what Ryan's concerns are (however unfounded they may be) and I knew that the user account idea wouldn't work. He doesn't want anybody but him to have access to the account where his cgi is stored. The only account on a system that no one else has access to, is if there's only one admin account.
What's ironic, is this: unless there's something about Superb Internet's policies that I don't know (which is entirely possible)... the people at Superb Internet probablernet probably have superuser access to Ryan's accounts. So, he trusts a buch of strangers, but he won't trust one of us.
Regarding my post of 9:24 this morning... I'm sorry if my words came across as viscious. I suppose I should have left my oppinion of Ryan's behaviour out of it, and just stated what my intentions were. The words didn't seem too emotional or viscous to me at the time, I thought they were fairly straight forward. I appologize, though, because I apparently came across too harsh for some of you.
Anyway, to clarify, I don't wish to see Ryan leave the community. He is unwilling to do as we ask, so he will step down. That's fine with me, and it's all water under the bridge. However, he's given no indication that if he steps down, that he'll leave a copy of the forum cgi in place for his replacement to administer. So, if he's in fact unwilling to do that, we will be without a forum when he passes his account info over to whomever we choose to replace him. If this is his intent, I will be angered at this, as well. However, we can find other scripts, it may just take a while to get one up. Maybe we can persuade JP to share his script that we used before moving to Ryan's. Heck, Ryan might even have a copy of that script somewhere that he's willing to hand over.
RyanP at 209.162.47.4 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 11:13:55 AM (PST)
Fernando: no thanks, user accounts are accessible by the admin
Rich at 205.188.197.52 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 11:04:33 AM (PST)
Gar, well said... they both deserve a ton of credit. now if only i could get in here as often and as quickly as i would like too! i think this server is conflicting with AOL.
Gar at 169.207.192.155 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 11:00:11 AM (PST)
Geez! And I thought I was bad Vince! hehehehe A bedroom system that big, who's place is that. Must be a single asexual guy, hahahahahaha JK!!!!!
Gar at 169.207.192.155 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 10:58:12 AM (PST)
Yikes! A rats nest in the HTOC! I am just glad that there is a place to exchange information on the hobbies we all love. I say lets get new members and let BYORK and RYAN run it together if they wish to. I can't thank them both equally enough for doing so.
Vincent at 209.240.200.158 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 10:55:40 AM (PST)
Take a look at this bedroom system!
http://community-1.webtv.net/BP2000/HOMETHEATER
Vincent at 209.240.200.158 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 10:55:10 AM (PST)
Take a look at this bedroom system!
http://community-1.webtv.net/BP2000/HOMETHEATER
Fernando at 158.93.201.201 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 10:45:21 AM (PST)
Kieran: I know you're peeved by the whole thing, but they're right. Lets just try to keep a level head and do what has to be done without too much emotion.
Ron H at 63.20.12.19 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 10:39:53 AM (PST)
Curtis: I agree!! Why are some pouring gasoline on a already burning fire?
Curtis at 216.103.214.49 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 10:34:07 AM (PST)
Kieran: Why don't you wait for a direct reply before being so negative?
Kieran at 12.13.238.139 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 10:31:33 AM (PST)
Fernando: Great idea, but I'll bet $50.00 he won't go for it.
Fernando at 158.93.201.201 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 10:26:03 AM (PST)
Here's my idea:
Instead of Ryan being the site administrator and BYork having a user account to work the HTOC files, How about (and tell me this isn't a good idea) BYork being the site admin and letting Ryan have the user account to work the forum. Then BYork could bring in a co-webmaster or something (since Ryan won't be a CO-webmaster). That way Ryan could stay and keep working on his forum without the security issues that concern him.
Ryan: We could guarantee that no one with access will touch your cgi and can keep a backup of it for extra safety. How's that?
David at 199.174.133.224 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 10:04:02 AM (PST)
I personally don't care if there are one or a hundred webmasters... as long as the forum works, my friends (read: you) keep posting, and good humor returns to the site. The only problem with one webmaster, in my eyes, is that there is no other person able to take control in event of an absence (Ryan on vacation, etc), accident, or other unforseen happenstance. If there is a plan that can accomodate that concern and still have just one webmaster, fine with me. Peace. Out.
JohnO at 140.183.114.30 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:50:59 AM (PST)
I vote for multiple webmasters.
Ron H at 63.21.10.142 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:50:52 AM (PST)
"I am believing that a two Webmaster vote means Ryan steps down."
This statement did not mean I want Ryan to step down. It means that with the ground rules Ryan has explained, there is no option left, if we want two Webmasters.
Curtis at 216.103.214.49 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:48:20 AM (PST)
Ron H: All done except for having someone to receive it Bachelors like to lay low on this particular day.
Curtis at 216.103.214.49 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:47:15 AM (PST)
Agreed. Spitting venom may feel good while you're typing it but it usually only makes matters worse. Just think of this as a business decision and leave the personalities out of it - things will be a whole lot simpler to deal with.
Ron H at 63.21.10.142 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:47:05 AM (PST)
Has everyone taken care of their Valentines Day duties yet?
Ron H at 63.21.10.142 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:45:45 AM (PST)
OK I will start: I vote for two Webmasters.
I am believing that a two Webmaster vote means Ryan steps down.
RichardS at 199.202.74.112 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:42:33 AM (PST)
I agree with RonH, let's not get nasty. I think we can reach a comprimise in a civil fashion.
RyanP at 209.162.47.15 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:41:03 AM (PST)
JohnO: You are correct, that has been explained several times and we are all aware of this, this is why I need to be replaced. I'll take your post as a 'kick' post.
Ron H at 63.21.10.142 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:39:42 AM (PST)
Why do we have to personaly attack someone because we disagree with them?
If others want a change or have two webmasters lets just say so with out the personal attacks.
We are all part of this forum including Ryan, who without we would not have this home. We should continue to show the same respect we have for others here, to Ryan. We "all" could try acting like adults to resolve this matter. Ryan has his beliefs and others including myself have another. Ryan has offered to step down if we do not want to do it his way. Lets just take a vote, be adults and be done with this.
JohnO at 140.183.114.30 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:37:32 AM (PST)
RyanP: You are not giving anyone a choice. You want exclusive power over a site that is not exclusively yours. You will not explain yourself to the other owners. ANYONE ON THE PLANET would think you are being unreasonable.
RyanP at 209.162.47.15 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:34:51 AM (PST)
Does everyone feel this way? If so please let me know so we can start the transfer process as soon as possible. Who will be taking over, BYork?
Kieran at 12.13.238.140 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:24:21 AM (PST)
ALL:
I think Ryan's behavior is unacceptable. Personally, I think it's immature, immoral, dishonest, and selfish. Until he changes his attitude and concedes, or is leaves and gives us his code, you'll see much less of me around here. Sorry, but it's easier to just not post, then to have to get angry every time I see him posting, behaving like nothing is wrong.
I am willing to accept an appology and change of behavior from him, though.
Ron H at 63.21.10.142 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:22:32 AM (PST)
Wild Bill: Now it is back to normal. It loads very fast again. Go figure.
JohnO at 140.183.114.30 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:20:39 AM (PST)
Curtis: Just go directly to http://www.dolby.com/dstore/
Right on that screen, the very first item in the middle under "new" is the DVD. I cut and pasted the info, including price.
Kieran at 12.13.238.141 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:18:06 AM (PST)
Curtis: I've got the Demonstration and Test disc. It's not worth the $40.00, though. Some of the test tones are neat, but for the most part, it's pretty boring. I use my dts demo disc #3 much more, and Avia for test tones.
The $15 version lacks the test tones, and is intended for consumers. They renamed the consumer version to "we've got the whole world listening" recently. It has been available under a different name for quite some time, I think almost since the debut of dvd. The new version includes 3 new DD trailers, namely, Aurora, Rain, and Game. Other than that, it appears to be the same disc.
Curtis at 216.103.214.49 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:16:52 AM (PST)
RyanP: "Just do it now" - an interesting thing to say on Valentine's Day
RyanP at 216.224.129.15 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:14:19 AM (PST)
Fernando: No, the only access I will allow is a user account which will restrict BYork's access to the HTOC HQ directory.
Now, everyone start your engines and either kick me or keep me.
Just do it now.
Curtis at 216.103.214.49 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:13:47 AM (PST)
It's kinda funny that Dobly's "Consumer Guide to Home Theater" is only available on standard VHS tape!
Curtis at 216.103.214.49 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:10:18 AM (PST)
JohnO: Now I'm confused. I went to the link you provided and came up with the following.
"Dolby DVD Demonstration and
Test Disc (version 1.0)
U.S. $40.00
This DVD demo provides information about Dolby Digital, and consists primarily of test tones and signals. In addition to two-channel test signals, 5.1-channel test signals, complex signal listening tests, and additional test signals, the disc includes a six-minute video on "The Dolby Digital Story," the Dolby Digital "Train," "City," "Canyon," and "Egypt" trailers, and additional music/demo material. It is shipped with a 24 page manual. The format is NTSC, all regions.
Please note: This product is not recommended for consumers. This DVD does not include film clips from theatrical releases. Some tests require test equipment not generally available to retailers or consumers. The disc contains full scale signals and may cause damage to equipment or hearing if used improperly.
Item #230001"
... where did you pick up the $15 price and is v 1.0 the most recent? I collect these kinds of demos - be aware that they can be pretty boring however. At $15 I'll bite, at $40 I'll pass.
RGB at 216.168.69.149 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:09:52 AM (PST)
Mic & Gasgeek: Happy Birthday guys!!!
JohnO at 140.183.114.30 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:08:11 AM (PST)
The Dolby demo DVD is now available.
Site is http://www.dolby.com/dstore/
"We've Got the Whole World Listening" DVD
U.S. $15.00
This new Dolby DVD, designed for home theater use, contains a history of Dolby, the Dolby Digital story, seven Dolby trailers (Aurora, Rain, City, Train, Canyon, Egypt, and Game), and sample music in multiple formats for comparison. This DVD is non-region-specific and will play on any DVD machine worldwide.
Item #230006
Kieran at 12.13.238.141 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:06:58 AM (PST)
Gasgeek,
Happy Birthday, bud!
JohnO at 140.183.114.30 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 9:04:39 AM (PST)
The Dolby demo DVD is now available.
Site is http://www.dolby.com/dstore/
"We've Got the Whole World Listening" DVD
U.S. $15.00
This new Dolby DVD, designed for home theater use, contains a history of Dolby, the Dolby Digital story, seven Dolby trailers (Aurora, Rain, City, Train, Canyon, Egypt, and Game), and sample music in multiple formats for comparison. This DVD is non-region-specific and will play on any DVD machine worldwide.
Item #230006
Curtis at 216.103.214.49 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 8:54:50 AM (PST)
RichardS: Yeah I suppose you're right. Last GF's family is I-A from New Jersey, man, they're tough on the outside but with marshmallow centers.
RichardS at 199.202.74.112 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 8:50:50 AM (PST)
Curtis: You better duck!!! Be nice, or you will be required to send in two DVD's per week for protection from the "boys"
Curtis at 216.103.214.49 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 8:48:58 AM (PST)
Anyone else planning to NOT buy into Windoze 2000 this week?
Win2K to ship Thursday with special added bonus! 63,000 potential known defects: According to a Microsoft memo obtained by ZDNet, there are about 63,000 potential defects in the final Win2K release code. While only 28,000 are likely to be real bugs, others do represent a "plain confusion as to how something is supposed to work." Microsoft's Windows development leader Marc Lucovsky correctly assessed the situation in a single, simple question he included in the memo: "How many of you would spend $500 on a piece of software with over 63,000 potential known defects?"
Curtis at 216.103.214.49 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 8:44:50 AM (PST)
JBC: You tested 2 channel female vocals and didn't listen to Diana Krall?! The shame
Gasser: Happy birthday guy.
Italian-American HT Club. Does this mean that everything in your HT's fell off a truck? (ducking). Wasn't that a line from Married to the Mob where every kitchen seemed to have 20 microwave ovens sitting around in boxes?
Rosy at 198.105.23.100 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 8:41:20 AM (PST)
Hey..are we starting an Italian HT Club....
Wild Bill at 63.15.231.150 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 8:30:29 AM (PST)
Ron H: I've been dealing with the slow loads for about a week now. It seems that if there is any Internet traffic at all this thing slows to a crawl.
Ron H at 63.20.12.65 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 8:10:49 AM (PST)
It seems it is my turn to deal with a slow load.
Wild Bill at 63.15.231.150 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 7:49:02 AM (PST)
RichardS: No, no problem at all! Please don't send Guido over to "straighten me out"!
RichardS at 199.202.74.112 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 7:26:13 AM (PST)
Wild Bill: You got a problem with dat?
Wild Bill at 63.20.247.109 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 7:18:11 AM (PST)
Gee what is this? The Italian-Canadian-American Club? LOL!
RichardS at 199.202.74.112 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 6:59:01 AM (PST)
RonH, JBC: Congrats on the new speakers!!
mic, Gasgeek: Happy Birthday!!
TonyC: You are not alone, capeech?
Wild Bill at 63.20.247.109 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 6:58:25 AM (PST)
Happy Birthday, Gasgeek!
David at 199.174.133.224 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 6:55:38 AM (PST)
Happy Birthday, Gasgeek!
Fernando at 158.93.201.201 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 6:38:29 AM (PST)
I know no one wants to start this again but it's time to finish it:
Ryan: Are you willing to give Brian free access to the site to act as another webmaster and manage the HTOC files?
Tony C: at 208.209.205.66 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 6:36:37 AM (PST)
HAPPY BIRTHDAY GRANDPAGEEK!
Tony C: at 208.209.205.66 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 6:35:24 AM (PST)
JBC: HT did a review of the 150P THX speaker system. Overall value rating of 92.
If I were shopping for the speakers, I would have done what you did. That is, select my own power source. And I think you are wise to think of resale down the road.
The magazine printed a list price of $1,799 per speaker. Is that correct?
See, the day I pay that much for speakers is the day that they also drive me to work.
The NHTs are ok. I've been watching a lot of movies and they sound ok. I think that there isn't a lot going on in these soundtracks to blow me away. You know I don't listen to music down there, so I haven't been doing any critical listening. I think about trading up but I'm too tired of the process.
Chris L. at 12.79.241.163 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 6:30:59 AM (PST)
HAPPY BIRTHDAY GASGEEEEEK!
mic at 166.68.134.163 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 6:16:35 AM (PST)
Thanks for all the B-day wishes.
BYork at 207.20.234.168 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 6:06:43 AM (PST)
Happy birthday, Gasgeek!
BYork at 207.20.234.168 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 6:06:19 AM (PST)
JT, "El" - The links to your bios are back.
Wild Bill is right...please send me emails if you find that your bios are not up, and you still wnat them to be. OTW, I maymiss your post.
Ron H at 63.20.181.3 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 5:50:14 AM (PST)
JBC: Glad to hear that your neighbors were not waiting for you at the door when you got home. It is good to hear that your initial listen showed a improvement over your old speakers. All in all it sounds like a very good installation and a fantastic sounding system.
Fernando at 158.93.201.201 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 5:29:29 AM (PST)
JBC: Cool. Glad their sounding good. Keep us posted. As far as the wall damage, if they put a hole where it shouldn't be it seems clear they need to fix it. They should agree to pay whatever it would cost to reasonably repair it. You may not get a perfect blend into your custom wall treatment but surely someone could do a decent job of getting it close?
JBC at 209.167.238.130 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 5:18:36 AM (PST)
Tony C: I have not recived the March issue of HT Magazine but am curious as to whetehr an article contained therein made you think of me (ie., is there something about M&K)? To answer your question, I went with standard 150's (ie., I did not get the powered version) as I thought it would be easier to trade/sell these when I do my next upgrade. That being said, I have a one year upgrade policy at no cost so time will tell...
How are the NHTs working out?
JBC at 209.167.238.130 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 5:12:45 AM (PST)
Good morning everyone. It is good to be back!
The M&Ks are in and sounding good. The installation which was scheduled for Wednesday lasted both Wednesday and Thursday. The only real disappointments with the instal were a) cable changes because those agreed on were not available b) onability to place/hide the binding plates behind the speakers due to wall constraints c) one hole drilled in the wrong palce which is covered by a blank wall plate and d) one hole drilled in the wrong place which can not be covered by blank wall plate and damaged a custom wall treatment. This last item I do not know exactly how to resolve.
The dealer/installer were pleasant to work with and very accomodating. Speaker cable ended up as follows -- AudioQuest Indigo for the L/C/R, AudioQuest Topaz for the subwoofer and XLO ER-16 for the SR/SL. The other cool thing about the instal was the use of a product call perlaps as a cable management system -- there is not one cable visible anywhere, including between the equipment in my rack and my RPTV, other than from the binding plate to the speakers. This stuff is great!
I will take some pictures in the next week or so, have them developed (no digital camera here) and send them to BYork for posting.
The next problem was breaking the speakers in. I left my house on Friday morning at 5:00 AM and did not return until 3:00 PM yesterday. Over the 58 hour period I had Tomorrow Never Dies playing at -05dB in a continous loop to break the speakers in. The neighbours said not a thing to me.
Last night I had the first opportunity to sit and listen. I started by watching Incognito -- good movie. Although there were not a lot of "sound effects", the dialogue was crystal clear and the effects, when present, were very punchy -- especially from thet sub! I next watched parts of The Right Stuff, the takeoffs were mind blowing! I ended the evening by listening to some music. Knowing that female vocals are the most difficult to produce I focused on these. I listened to Ella Fitsgerald ( I especially liked her redintion of Mack the Knife) and Shirley Horn in 2-channel mode (ie., no DSP engaged). In a word... incredible. I do notknow if it was because:
a) the M&Ks are 9 feet apart whereas my PSB's were 5 feet apart.
b) the M&Ks are not obstructed whereas my PSB's were firing into a coffe table that was between me and the speakers.
c) the M&Ks are simply better speakers.
d) a combination of the above.
In any event... there was a noticeable improvement.
I will report back in a bit once I have done more listening and determined the answer to the ultimate question -- was the upgrade were the $$$!
Have a great day from Toronto where it is cold as hell and covered with 6" to 8" of snow.
Wild Bill at 63.15.231.177 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 4:57:15 AM (PST)
PSA from Wild Bill: All of you with missing bios! Brian asked that you e-mail him if you want your bio to stay up on the site. He did not ask that you put a post on the forum so he has to filter through everything to find out who wants their bio on the site and who doesn't. So if you send him an e-mail you may get your bio back up on the site. Just an FYI.
AVB at 208.157.96.40 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 4:26:02 AM (PST)
Ron H: Morning Ron.
Ron H at 63.27.245.13 on Monday, February 14, 2000 at 4:08:06 AM (PST)
Good Morning all.